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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#211

Post by panicinducer »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #193
Lerc wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hand written? Wouldn't a one-on-one interview be a better way to establish a broad evaluation of competency.

> Wouldn't a one-on-one interview be a better way to establish a broad evaluation of competency. 1) Possibly, depending on the material, but most classes aren't looking for a "broad evaluation of competency", they're looking for the specific material taught. It'd make more sense as a graduation requirement: the equivalent of a dissertation but for undergraduate work. 2) Even in small classes (e.g. 20-30 students) tha…

Maybe not everything needs to "scale"? You're asking each student to spend well over 100 hours in lectures and study for each class. Surely you can find 20 or 30 minutes per student for evaluation.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#212

Post by ndriscoll »

ewild wrote: post #146
dgellow wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those exams a contest? Like, they will only take the best N percentiles? Because if not, you’re competing only against yourself and should ignore others’ grades

It's an incredibly privileged Pov to say it isn't a contest. These kids entire futures are impacted by these scores.

Ivy League kids tend to not be facing some extreme economic precarity. In fact a decent number of them likely have enough family wealth to not need to work a day in their lives. The others are unlikely to face too much trouble over a few Bs at Brown.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#213

Post by zdragnar »

customguy wrote: post #120
walrus01 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. Forcing hand written should really not be necessary. It would be very cheap in terms of old computing hardware to set up a test room with old desktop PCs that have wired only NICs (with a network connection that goes to a switch in the same room with no uplink, connected to a decent size laser printer only), running something like lubuntu and…

> Forcing hand written should really not be necessary. I do think it's necessary. And I felt unsure at first of how extremely strong I feel about this -- I think everybody should be able to write cursive, and even doctors should be able to write legibly, which ALL of them could learn in one single day, an afternoon, if they had to -- but then I did a simple search for "the benefits of writing by hand studies" and now…

I'm neither fully left handed or fully right handed. I mostly write with my left hand, but it has never been clean, despite doing all of my school work for 18 years with either pencil or pen and paper.

I wish I could have a just spent "an afternoon" to magically make either my printing or cursive better, but it basically stalled out early on and never improved despite years of practice.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#214

Post by randunel »

jdshaffer wrote: post #210

I've been trying to figure out how to avoid AI fraud in my classes, like many others. While not perfect, I've written down my thoughts and attempts in the hope it might help someone else: https://web.hedc.shizuoka.ac.jp/msg-from-center/creating-mea... Edit: Didn't realize the original URL was paywalled. Sorry. This newer URL is open. Apologies.

Nice way to paywall a comment on HN.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#215

Post by encomiast »

cataphract wrote: post #166
metalcrow wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit of cursive over standard writing?

What is "standard writing"? Isn't cursive the standard you're taught and then everyone writes however they want?

When I was in school we started with "manuscript" writing, which is detached letters similar to a typical sans-serif typeface without the two-story `a` and other fanciness. We then progressed to cursive.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#216

Post by bagels »

walrus01 wrote: post #156
bagels wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can fit on augmented reality glasses, eventually.

Pretty sure that augmented reality glasses, and things in the category of the meta glasses with built-in camera are already banned in most academic test environments, by a blanket policy prohibiting the use of any camera in the room.

Right, they're easy to detect today, that's not going to last long. The whole point is to prevent cheating, well, cheats aren't going to follow the rules. Written tests/in person tests aren't a complete answer to this.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#217

Post by siva7 »

yiyingzhang wrote: post #199

As a university professor, I honestly don't understand the point of grading. Who will look at and care about grades? Likely company HR. But then why should we (professors) do the screening for companies for free? Also, grades have long been inflated to a point we might as well just give everyone an A and let companies figure out how to select people.

It saddens me to see how creativity seems to "peak" at "let's go back to how we did it in 20th century" instead of asking the better questions like you did.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#218

Post by squibonpig »

1123581321 wrote: post #196
xp84 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> challenge "hand writing is harder to revise" What? Suppose you want to fix the opening of your essay. Best case it's pencil and you can erase some, but worst case you have a longer sentence you want to put in there so you can't do it without scribbling all over and making a mess of the page. Word processors let you edit. How is this controversial? > why is the speed it takes to write it at all relevant? Okay, so fr…

It’s fine to erase or use scratch paper on an essay test. You don’t write the test to fill the 60 minute slot. You time it so students are able to finish early if they’re really good. Slow ones need the whole time but can still do well if they understand the material being tested.

I don't generally get why tests are designed to rush a student. Is speed a proxy for understanding?

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#219

Post by kalium-xyz »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #148
ant6n wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 40 and forcing students to do handwritten essays during tests has always been stupid. Typing is much faster, why bottleneck ideas by forcing handwriting?

A lecture hall full of click-click-click isn't going to be conducive to concentrating on a test.

I had tons of exams like that. Its not an issue as the computers simply do not have loud mechanical keyboards connected

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#220

Post by kalium-xyz »

walrus01 wrote: post #134
dzink wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fill the room with typewriters.

Typewriters are an expensive and niche item these days, due to no longer being manufactured, and the good ones being collected by weird nerds. Sort of like buying a 40-year-old vinyl turntable that is in good and usable condition.

You cant type fast on them either
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