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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#131

Post by walrus01 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #128
paul7986 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be no computer at all just give students a typewriter. It could prompt a resurgence of the typewriter :)

These days pretty sure computers are cheaper than typewriters.

Computers good enough to run libreoffice writer or the equivalent and print to a networked laser are thrown in the ewaste trash all the time, the cost really would be in the labor and somewhat custom software setup. Could also reuse old flat panel displays that have been decommissioned from office use.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#132

Post by zer00eyz »

Diogenesian wrote: post #114
dgellow wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different magnitude of cheating altogether

Hmm I think one part every commenter is missing is that students have grown way more mercenary and cynical over the last 20 years. I was shocked in grad school that: a) I got bullied into sharing my math homework so people could copy it, just like high school and college... but this was math grad school! b) In 2011 I TAed a 4000-level course where the instructor left the solutions to the homework online (he wrote the…

We're talking about Brown students here.

Im going to guess that it is a safe bet that the 50 cheaters are all legacy enrollments.

1/2 of the graduating class is there for the education, the other half is there because the parents are keeping up the network.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#133

Post by mullingitover »

krackers wrote: post #74
cherryteastain wrote: post #37

His research is in Game Theory. He should have realized that, in a situation where all competitors are (possibly) using LLMs, the game theoretic optimal choice is to use LLMs.

Game Theory seems sort of useless in the real world because people are not rational players, and the real challenge is in getting an accurate model of their behavior. The honor system would work probably fine in a tiny close-knit liberal arts college, while it would obviously wouldn't in a place where the degree itself is the target.

Aside from evolutionary biology, cancer research, embryonic development, economics, internet routing, spectrum auctions, counter-terrorism, kidney exchanges, generative AI, and preventing nuclear apocalypse...What HAS game theory done for us?!

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#134

Post by walrus01 »

dzink wrote: post #126
ant6n wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 40 and forcing students to do handwritten essays during tests has always been stupid. Typing is much faster, why bottleneck ideas by forcing handwriting?

Fill the room with typewriters.

Typewriters are an expensive and niche item these days, due to no longer being manufactured, and the good ones being collected by weird nerds. Sort of like buying a 40-year-old vinyl turntable that is in good and usable condition.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#135

Post by metalcrow »

customguy wrote: post #120
walrus01 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. Forcing hand written should really not be necessary. It would be very cheap in terms of old computing hardware to set up a test room with old desktop PCs that have wired only NICs (with a network connection that goes to a switch in the same room with no uplink, connected to a decent size laser printer only), running something like lubuntu and…

> Forcing hand written should really not be necessary. I do think it's necessary. And I felt unsure at first of how extremely strong I feel about this -- I think everybody should be able to write cursive, and even doctors should be able to write legibly, which ALL of them could learn in one single day, an afternoon, if they had to -- but then I did a simple search for "the benefits of writing by hand studies" and now…

What's the benefit of cursive over standard writing?

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#136

Post by bagels »

wnevets wrote: post #92
walrus01 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. Forcing hand written should really not be necessary. It would be very cheap in terms of old computing hardware to set up a test room with old desktop PCs that have wired only NICs (with a network connection that goes to a switch in the same room with no uplink, connected to a decent size laser printer only), running something like lubuntu and…

Can you fit a decent LLM on a thumbdrive?

It can fit on augmented reality glasses, eventually.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#137

Post by profmonocle »

rsfern wrote: post #30
revolvingthrow wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the highest offices of the land are packed to the gills with liars and grifters and anyone with a brain can observe there’s no downside to such behavior, "just be honest" rings rather hollow

Maybe I have too optimistic a mindset, but “just be honest” in academia isn’t about being a rule-follower, it’s about not short-changing yourself by coasting though on autopilot instead of learning to think and solve problems for yourself. Whether that really matters if your goal is to climb the social ladder and have power and influence, I don’t know.

Replace "climb the social ladder and have power and influence" with "be able to afford a home, have kids, and go on vacation occasionally."

It's become very difficult to have even a middle class lifestyle without a college degree. Obviously a huge percentage of people there don't want to be.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#138

Post by forgetfreeman »

ant6n wrote: post #106
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 30 and “we can’t do tests in paper” seems _insane_. Just how metastatic has ed tech been in what, 9 years since my undergrad?

I’m 40 and forcing students to do handwritten essays during tests has always been stupid. Typing is much faster, why bottleneck ideas by forcing handwriting?

I'm 50. Optimizing testing for speed is goofy. The point of the exercise is to demonstrate the student's understanding of the material, not their WPM.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#139

Post by bagels »

goldenarm wrote: post #47
cherryteastain wrote: post #37

His research is in Game Theory. He should have realized that, in a situation where all competitors are (possibly) using LLMs, the game theoretic optimal choice is to use LLMs.

That depends on the reward function. Should society reward credentials or skill?

Society rewards credentials and skill. So both are but one is easier to get with cheating.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#140

Post by encomiast »

customguy wrote: post #120
walrus01 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the AI era, tests are going to have to be in person and hand written. Forcing hand written should really not be necessary. It would be very cheap in terms of old computing hardware to set up a test room with old desktop PCs that have wired only NICs (with a network connection that goes to a switch in the same room with no uplink, connected to a decent size laser printer only), running something like lubuntu and…

> Forcing hand written should really not be necessary. I do think it's necessary. And I felt unsure at first of how extremely strong I feel about this -- I think everybody should be able to write cursive, and even doctors should be able to write legibly, which ALL of them could learn in one single day, an afternoon, if they had to -- but then I did a simple search for "the benefits of writing by hand studies" and now…

> I think everybody should be able to write cursive

As someone who has hated both reading and writing cursive since middle school, I'm curious what is significant about cursive specifically?

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