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Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

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Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#251

Post by kurthr »

kurthr wrote: post #44
khuey wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience in major East Asian cities (predominantly Tokyo and Taipei) is that they have extensive networks of surveillance cameras operated by or accessible to the police.

Japanese police are very rarely willing to even ask to look at any of the disorganized hodgepodge of private cameras for property crimes or even minor physical altercations. They are far more likely to rely on personal accounts. TV dramas not withstanding. Although Tokyo does have a system of traffic cameras which log traffic movement and license plates, that's most all that it does. Except in cases of murder or kidn…

I should mention that the list of thefts (other than an umbrella which I promptly replaced with its neighbor) are not ones that I have personally experienced, nor do I suspect that it is statistically accurate to those reported to police (conbini shoplifting and transit fare skipping must be larger). However, it is accurate to the top 3 "thefts" I've heard Tokyo residents complain about. If a native cares to correct me, I'd retract it.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#252

Post by sarchertech »

nailer wrote: post #248
sarchertech wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a quick check here and it has a lower crime and a higher safety score than London and Paris. https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Uni...

[flagged]

> London is a uniquely dangerous city due to Islamic terrorism and Paris due to crime.

There aren’t that many comparable cities to NY. Only London and NY reach the Alpha++ world city designation.

I don’t see any Islamic terror attacks in London during the year those stats are pulled from.

As for Paris the crime index is high “due to crime” is a tautology.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#253

Post by nailer »

sarchertech wrote: post #252
nailer wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> London is a uniquely dangerous city due to Islamic terrorism and Paris due to crime. There aren’t that many comparable cities to NY. Only London and NY reach the Alpha++ world city designation. I don’t see any Islamic terror attacks in London during the year those stats are pulled from. As for Paris the crime index is high “due to crime” is a tautology.

The point re: Paris is that most cities would look better when compared to Paris on safety.

> Only London and NY reach the Alpha++ world city designation.

As someone that's spent the last two decades living in both, it's a little bit of past glory. Miami is more ambitious, Lisbon is where smart international companies go. London still has great universities but they're lessened and capital goes elsewhere.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#254

Post by tptacek »

chaps wrote: post #228
tptacek wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I agree that's problematic conceptually, but it's absolutely not what's happening. ALPRs don't select cars on spec, like, "this car looks out of place here". Nobody has time for that. They're matching specific descriptions of cars to incidents, like, "this vehicle has been present at the site of 5 previous package thefts". Here's another way to look at this. Municipalities are the primary operators of ALPR came…

They're matching specific descriptions of cars to incidents, like, "this vehicle has been present at the site of 5 previous package thefts". You're hand-waving a hell of a lot of things away and you expect that everyone knows what you're talking about. Please stop doing that. - Who is "They"? - Why do you say "nobody has time for that"? What is "that"? - Why are you dismissing genuine concerns through unhelpful langu…

Hey, Chaps! Sorry, I write the way I write.

"They" are public bodies operating ALPR devices; in the main, municipal police forces, though obviously other public bodies (like the Illinois State Police) operate them as well.

The antecedent of the first "that" was "the use of cameras to detect cars with politically disfavored bumper stickers".

I am, yes, dismissing the concern that ALPRs are being used to detect cars with politically unfavorable bumper stickers. I think that if advocates for ending our Flock contract had come to the board table with that concern, rather than the quality of Illinois LEADS, we'd still have the cameras up.

The antecedent of the second "that" is "organizing around easily dismissible movie-plot concerns, like that municipal police are going to dragnet for people with anti-police bumper stickers". Unwinding the sentence, the "big deal" is, as I just said, that centering implausible risks takes real risks out of focus, and gives ammunition for advocates of the cameras --- of which there are a great many --- to push back on efforts to get the cameras down.

I spelled the "deeply problematic" things out elsewhere on the thread.

Feel free to tell me more about what Bloomingdale was doing with their cameras. With no detail, I'm inclined to believe the force simply didn't give a shit about the description field in the search request, because no serious, rigorous effort was made to regulate ALPRs in Bloomingdale, and so there isn't much signal in the logs.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#255

Post by sarchertech »

nailer wrote: post #253
sarchertech wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> London is a uniquely dangerous city due to Islamic terrorism and Paris due to crime. There aren’t that many comparable cities to NY. Only London and NY reach the Alpha++ world city designation. I don’t see any Islamic terror attacks in London during the year those stats are pulled from. As for Paris the crime index is high “due to crime” is a tautology.

The point re: Paris is that most cities would look better when compared to Paris on safety. > Only London and NY reach the Alpha++ world city designation. As someone that's spent the last two decades living in both, it's a little bit of past glory. Miami is more ambitious, Lisbon is where smart international companies go. London still has great universities but they're lessened and capital goes elsewhere.

> Miami is more ambitious

My wife grew up there, and I worked for a company based there for years, and I can’t really even come up with a good educated guess for that that means.

You could argue that London is past its prime, but you could have made that argument 75 years ago. It still retains its alpha++ designation and it’s the top ranking in the global financial centers index.

But regardless neither Lisbon nor Miami is a peer to NYC right now.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#256

Post by [deleted] »

tr45872267 wrote: post #144
righthand wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all lies. Small towns have notiriously higher crime rates than Nyc. We should send the National Guard to your small town and place cameras every where. I dont feel safe in your small town. I moved away from middle America that’s swamped in meth, high murder rate, and racism. Sorry someone spilled a coca-cola though. Your pearls must be powder in your hands by now.

This is false. Urban areas have the highest rate of crime compared to rural and suburban. For example look at the years 2020 and 2021 from this report:[0] Table 8 Rate of victimization, by type of crime and location of residence, 2020 and 2021 Location of residence Total violent crime Violent crime excluding simple assault Total property crime 2020 2021* 2020 2021* 2020 2021* Urban 19.0 † 24.5 7.7 9.7 158.9 157.5 Sub…

[deleted]

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#257

Post by righthand »

tr45872267 wrote: post #144
righthand wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all lies. Small towns have notiriously higher crime rates than Nyc. We should send the National Guard to your small town and place cameras every where. I dont feel safe in your small town. I moved away from middle America that’s swamped in meth, high murder rate, and racism. Sorry someone spilled a coca-cola though. Your pearls must be powder in your hands by now.

This is false. Urban areas have the highest rate of crime compared to rural and suburban. For example look at the years 2020 and 2021 from this report:[0] Table 8 Rate of victimization, by type of crime and location of residence, 2020 and 2021 Location of residence Total violent crime Violent crime excluding simple assault Total property crime 2020 2021* 2020 2021* 2020 2021* Urban 19.0 † 24.5 7.7 9.7 158.9 157.5 Sub…

The pandemic years are the exception. Please dont use cherry picked facts to spread FUD.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#258

Post by handoflixue »

maccard wrote: post #231
handoflixue wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were able to write one 20 years ago, I dare say an LLM could whip one up super-fast. Or just search the internet and tell you where to find one. One of the risks of LLMs is that a lot of tasks go from "an expert could do this easily given a few weeks" to "anyone who thinks to ask an LLM can do this easily and get results the same day"

> One of the risks of LLMs is that a lot of tasks go from "an expert could do this easily given a few weeks" to "anyone who thinks to ask an LLM can do this easily and get results the same day" By that logic, all problems are solved with LLMs, though.

Honestly, there's plenty of experts worried about exactly that. But if you'd prefer, feel free to mentally scope my claim to the domain of "things we already know LLMS can do, like copying previously solved software problems"

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#259

Post by righthand »

timciep wrote: post #88
righthand wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the meth heads shitting in the streets of the small town? Rampant assault and murder rates. What about all the drinking and driving killing people in America. No, no, it’s Nyc that’s scary.

Yes, crime in small towns is bad too. Do we agree?

No because the small towns looneys aren’t on the online forums raving about the meth head they saw on the street one time in their town.

Re: Flock cameras track more than your license plate, and they're spreading fast

#260

Post by righthand »

nailer wrote: post #245
wat10000 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re describing a spilled soda as a safety issue. The other person isn’t the one with a broken frame of reference.

No, he's describing someone so stoned out of their mind they don't know how to drink a soda. I feel most people would read his comment and understand that.

And that isnt a crime. It’s a strawman trying to say it’s a crime.
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