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What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

psychologytoday.com

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Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#371
post #335
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? People take depression meds, blood pressure meds, all kinds of meds for their whole life. I'll be on omeprazole for reflux my whole life. It doesn't solve the underlying problem of my gut being prone to overpumping acid into my stomach. So omeprazole is problematic? The underlying issue is being treated, it's treated by taking the drug. It works. It's doing its job. I'd be curious as to how you came to this…

Because usually you can't study long-term effects before releasing a drug, and even then it can take a long time for them to surface. I took antihistamines basically throughout my 20s. My allergy specialist said there's no reason not to. I developed some other issues and wanted to stop taking antihistamines to see if that would help (or get a hint whether they were causing it) - but that got me into itching hell for…

I personally believe you are right to be weary about holding off on long term use before the long term efficacy and risk profile of a drug has been established, but GLP1 class drugs have been around for a long time now.

GLP1 agonist type incretins have been available for over 20 years at this point. The first marketing approval was in 2005 for exenatide (Byetta), indicated for T2DM. Exenatide was the first in class for GLP1 agonists. Then came Liraglutide (Victoza) for the same indication around 2010, and received marketing approval for weight loss (as Saxenda) 4 years later. After that around 2017 was semaglutide (Ozempic & Wegovy).

T2DM is a chronic disease, so patients who started exenatide had to stay on it life long.

These drugs are nothing new and were already being used for T2DM. It only caught public attention because semaglutide achieved double the mean BW loss over liraglutide, making it meaningful for weight loss. Novo Nordisk first got approval for Ozempic for T2DM in 2017 and then received approval for it to be marketed for weight loss under Wegovy only in 2021, but by then clinicians were already prescribing it off-label, strictly speaking, for weight loss.

I don't know how much we could extend this "they've been around for a long time" to tirzepatide (Eli Lilly: Mounjaro & Zepbound) because it's the first dual agonist. It targets GLP1 and GIP, and thus it's meaningfully separated from the others. This goes for retatrutide (again Eli Lilly) as well if it eventually comes to market as it would be the first triple-agonist targeting the aforementioned + GCGR, the glucagon receptor.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#372
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you could intentionally eat good food? I've heard it widely described as reducing mental noise around food.

People can get fat by eating too much healthy food.

Wasn't there just a study, that many fat kids are fat because of fruit juices?

Healthy in a way, but surprisingly a lot of sugar ( either added or from the fruits)

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 to 10 oranges per day being healthy or not is largely dependent what else you eat. Biggest issue there is likely teeth decay due to acidity.

No its not. 8-10 Oranges is too much sugar. Too much sugar hurts your insulin reaction and can bring diabetes.

Not really, healthy person can easily handle that amount of sugar. Has plenty of fiber to balance.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has never been my problem. I can easily eat 5k calories of whole foods

What do you eat in those 5000kcal calories? Genuinely curious.

I don't think I could do it, but 3.5 cups of peanut butter would get you there. Or four 16 ounce ribeyes.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#375
post #171

I'd take them even if they didn't make me lose weight - and I'm the type of person that doesn't like takeing Tylenol unless absolutely necessary. The best way I can describe it: my body and mind are no longer is in starvation mode. I plan, do, act and sleep well.

I had the same experience, but not with GLP-1 drugs, but by upping my protein intake to about 0.7g per pound of body weight. Night and day, stopped always being hungry... I've tried Noom before (eating highly filling, low calorie foods, but filling, not satiating), but that only worked while I was tracking (and always forcing myself to keep it up)... Losing weight required work on top of that, but the protein just ma…

I have lost 30lbs this year and even the difference between .5 and .7 is noticeable to me.

There is also the variable that you can work out too much. I did a brutal 30 minute glycolytic conditioning session on Friday and it just doesn't matter how much protein I consume the next day. Something with ghrelin goes off the chart and the next day takes huge will power to not just eat everything.

I think it is even worse with max effort weight lifting.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#376
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you could intentionally eat good food? I've heard it widely described as reducing mental noise around food.

People can get fat by eating too much healthy food.

You'd have to eat a lot of broccoli

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#377
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omeprazole is not great long term FYI - worth talking to your doctor or getting a second opinion to discuss.

I’ve been taking high doses long term for over a decade and I don’t really have any substantial issues.

Definitely not a good idea to be on it longer than 2 months. If we can't treat the underlying condition and the patient needs life-long acid suppression therapy, we switch to H2 receptor antagonists, like cimetidine.

Long term PPI use has non-trivial risks, including magnesium and other micronutrient deficiencies, and can lead to things like SIBO and other primarily gut related morbidity.

I would definitely suggest sitting down with your doctor if you were not specifically instructed to take it for that long.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No its not. 8-10 Oranges is too much sugar. Too much sugar hurts your insulin reaction and can bring diabetes.

Not really, healthy person can easily handle that amount of sugar. Has plenty of fiber to balance.

I rechecked it and you are right.

Its an issue if you drink orange juice not when you eat it. Eating takes longer and is getting balanced from the fiber.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what many of us are trying to tell you: you are just not suffering from the kind of food obsession that some of us experience (whether that is caused by mental issues, metabolic, environmental, whatever it might be). And the vast majority of significantly overweight and obese people have exactly this problem. This is similar to how most people drink alcohol occasionally, maybe sometimes get drunk at a pa…

I posted this elsewhere too but i'll add it here: I've helped many people lose weight, become jacked, and go from underweight to a healthy weight. I regularly hear from overweight and obese people who come to me, “I’m genetically predisposed to being fat.” Yet after a few months, we often make significant progress. Many of them have also tried “deficit dieting,” and it didn’t work for them. But when I looked more dee…

I think you are ignoring the selection bias, when looking at people who seek out professional help for losing weight, even more so when it's about people who can then become jacked.

Note that I'm not speaking as someone who has just accepted being overweight/obese. I was hovering around 105kg in my early 20s, then I gathered the motivation to go down to ~75kg over the course of a year, then maintained myself around 80-85kg for the next 5 years, then in a bad period went back to overeating and was hovering around 100kg again for a few years, and now I'm in the process of going back down (currently around 86-88kg after 6 months of actually working on losing weight - so about two thirds of the way to where I'd like to be, given I've also been building some muscle mass).

So I'm not someone who just throws up their hands and says "I'll always be fat", or maybe pushes themselves for a fad diet one month and is proud of losing 5kg that come back right away. My experience though is that appetite control and managing food cravings are the most important parts of managing my own weight, and that the nutrient content of food has virtually nothing to do with it. I can eat a whole steak with 400g of steamed peas and some asparagus, with some butter and cheese, and then feel hungry and unsatisfied 4-6h later when the stomach isn't as full. And if I'm not in a good headspace, I may well then grab a McDonald's menu to get rid of the feeling of hunger and get some satisfaction that the steak and vegetables didn't actually address on that day - and the exact opposite can happen on other days.

This is why for me things like One Meal A Day (OMAD) has been mucn more useful than actual careful nutrient tracking. Being able to tell myself "it's OK that I'm feeling hungry right now, I'll eat that X tomorrow and be satisfied" has been the single biggest helper. I've not yet been tempted to try out GLP-1s (afraid of the side effects, the food problem isn't that bad), but I imagine they could be a huge help if they removed the need for such willpower-based mechanisms.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#380

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

Totally agree. My father is 75 and started taking GLP1. He stopped drinking immediately, lost 25lbs already and I can't imagine hasn't already added some time to his life.

The calculus at 75 is much different than at 35 in terms of what "for life" means.

It seems like there could be an issue too that it just stops working that well 10 years down the road. Not an issue for my father at 85 the way it would be for someone at 45.

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