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What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

psychologytoday.com

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Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#171

Post by dmayle »

dirtbagskier wrote: post #2

I'd take them even if they didn't make me lose weight - and I'm the type of person that doesn't like takeing Tylenol unless absolutely necessary. The best way I can describe it: my body and mind are no longer is in starvation mode. I plan, do, act and sleep well.

I had the same experience, but not with GLP-1 drugs, but by upping my protein intake to about 0.7g per pound of body weight.

Night and day, stopped always being hungry... I've tried Noom before (eating highly filling, low calorie foods, but filling, not satiating), but that only worked while I was tracking (and always forcing myself to keep it up)...

Losing weight required work on top of that, but the protein just made my hunger response start working properly again.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#172

Post by fwip »

ajross wrote: post #164
htk wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the symptom is being treated, not the underlying issue. And that's ok, but treating the underlying issue, when possible, is better, as the problem ceases to exist.

> No, the symptom is being treated, not the underlying issue. That's a semantic argument. The "issue", medically, to most people viewing this as a health problem, is excess body fat and not eating behavior. I mean, you're not wrong, but this seems silly. YES , it would be better to have developed a cure for disordered and unrestrained eating. We didn't. And we don't really even know how. Oops, as it were. But we do h…

Additionally - GLP1 drugs work by changing those eating patterns.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#173

Post by mukbangpervert »

joshuamcginnis wrote: post #16

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

What facts do you have that make you certain that the underlying issue is "food addiction" rather than, say, a difference in body chemistry that changes perceived hunger levels?

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#174

Post by PaulHoule »

joshuamcginnis wrote: post #16

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

It's not like anything else in terms of drugs, surgery, or lifestyle changes has been proven safe and effective. A person who is dependent on opiates or caffeine or cannabis can possibly live without those substances, you can't go "cold turkey" from food.

Funny I just shot myself with a Zepbound autoinjector for the first time! My primary care doc told me he thought I was a good candidate a year ago but that he had trouble getting insurance to pay for it, it took me a year to get in with a specialist, insurance approved it right away, and now I am supposed to keep a food an exercise log.

I am well in the obese BMI range but I've been active my whole life (e.g. I can't see how people can get through the day without going to the gym or something) so I have a high lean mass and don't look that fat with my clothes on. I've struggled for years with various conditions associated with "metabolic syndrome" and I'm on numerous maintenance medications already and may be able to delete some of them.

I am currently around 250 lbs which has been my usual for the past 20 years or so. Had some luck with Zone, ketogentic and bean plan diets but couldn't stay on any of them indefinitely. Got my weight down to about 208 lb in six months when I quit taking antidepressants at my doctor's suggestion (never went back), had something like a manic episode where I manifested an "evil twin" who was vain highly motivated [1] and worked out like... a maniac and I also discovered I had TMJ dysfunction and took load off my jaw by throwing comically random food (cashews, seaweed, celery, potatoes, carrots, pork, ...) into a pot and grinding it with an immersion blended. Not sustainable, not least because my evil twin's antics got me kicked out of the gym.

[1] as-a-fox one axiom is that "I never push on a string" and have a hierarchy of goals, non-goal goals and non-goals; my non-goal goals are his OKRs

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#176

Post by faangguyindia »

dgabriel wrote: post #170
faangguyindia wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for many people the underlying issue is serious lack of education when it comes to nutrition. Not understanding calorie balance, not understanding calorie density of the food they eat. How many people know 1kg fat = 7700kcal that if they could create deficit of 7700kcal they could potentially lose 1kg bodyfat? Ofc, i know the relationship isn't that simple but for most people this roughly holds true. If you are eatin…

I understand calorie balance. I've been on a diet since I was 12 years old, and am now approaching 50. I've lost and regained the same 60lbs about 4 times now. I have logged every bite that goes into my mouth, and lived with a constant hunger for as long as I could take it. Then I ate until I felt satisfied and gained it all back. I know how many calories are in anything, and I can eyeball any serving size. I've been…

I have no personal animosity toward you, but I've heard all this many times, so I'll respond accordingly.

>I've been on a diet since I was 12 years old, and am now approaching 50. I've lost and regained the same 60lbs about 4 times now

You can lose weight by crash dieting, which does not prove much. The first thing that comes to mind for people is simply: "I'll just eat very little and lose weight." It even works, but people quickly get results; it makes them miserable, and they gain it back.

People get stuck between "eating too little" and "binge eating".

>I have logged every bite that goes into my mouth, and lived with a constant hunger for as long as I could take it

This proves you are sincere in calorie tracking, but it doesn't tell us much about what kind of deficit you were in. What were your maintenance calories, and how did you calculate them?

What kind of deficit did you run over what time period?

In my experience, while people know all these things, execution still requires knowing all the "gotchas".

Going from 2700kcal calories to 1000kcal a day diet will make anyone hungry and miserable.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#177

Post by dmayle »

joshuamcginnis wrote: post #16

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

The issue isn't food addiction, it's a broken hunger response (broken by Howard Moskowitz intentionally in the name of profits)...

You have to change your food regimen completely (higher fiber, more protein, less sugar, less carbs, less fat), and that's tough to do when you're surrounded by options that aren't...

I think the real problem is that the symptom we're trying to treat is "overweight", and it's actually a two-stage problem... Fix the hunger response... and only then work on fixing the weight... Fixinig the latter without fixing the former means you'll always gain the weight back, fixing the former doesn't guarantee you lose weight (and is only temporary, if you're using drugs for it)... You have to go after both problems.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#178

Post by PaulHoule »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #84
ceejayoz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We also know there's a replication crisis in psychology and medicine… It seems unlikely to extend to bariatric surgery outcomes. > This idea that Americans are genetically pre-ordained to be fat seems like fanciful thinking. This idea that Americans are genetically pre-ordained to lack willpower seems like fanciful thinking.

Of course they aren't genetically pre-ordained to lack willpower. That's why they could stop being fat, if only they chose to. The issue is cultural, not genetic. You don't go from 12% obesity to 40% obesity in 40 years due to a genetic shift, but rather a cultural one.

America is more obese than many nations but obesity is increasing the world over.

The timing is just about right to blame it on Reagan, either the theory that neoliberalism leads to "structured stress" or than some environmental chemical got approved in that time frame.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#179

Post by declan_roberts »

buck746 wrote: post #109
hellzbellz123 wrote: post #9

As a habitual habit developer, Im keeping my hopes up that in 5 or 10 years, this is something that can help me and many others. I've read experiences from people on illicit substances that claimed they helped them quit. It would be beat if this carried over to things like caffeine/nicotine/thc/etc.

There's anecdotal accounts of GLP meds helping with a range of addictions. Of course in science anecdotal accounts are the lowest tier of evidence, that's only top shelf in law.

It's not just anecdotes. Eli Lilly is actively in trials with a glp-1 peptide brenipatide for treatment for certain kinds of addictions, such as alcohol, smoking and opioid addictions.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#180

Post by declan_roberts »

OptionOfT wrote: post #36

My insurance stopped covering, now I'm looking at $450 for Zepbound / month. Just the weight coming back is making me more depressed...

Gray market peptides are excellent. You can do you own independent lab testing, buy with a group who's testing, or buy from a reputable vendor who pre-tests before sales.

Even after all that it comes down to like $50 a month at the highest dose.

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