Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

msn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 96 posts

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#31

Post by browsingonly »

tancop wrote: post #5

selectively giving away free money to big business is straight corruption. there is no other way to put it. everyone involved should lose re election and get investigated by the financial crimes unit. but i dont think "leave it up to the market" is a better idea. investments like this just need to be transparent, open to everyone and set up strict punishment for stealing the money with prison for executives. if they…

> open competitive programs based on project quality

This will never, ever happen. There will always be bonus points available, even if they're awarded to "conservative"-leaning feel-good attributes like veteran-owned sponsor businesses.

These investments are likely to always fail at their declared purpose. Better to put the money towards free childcare and maybe trying to convince parents to read to their kids.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#32

Post by Avicebron »

coldbrewed wrote: post #24
Henchman21 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-enrichment on the part of government employees?! I am SHOCKED BEYOND ALL BELIEF. /s

We need more judges and prosecutors that are hungry to catch corruption and are willing to go after white collar crime.

We need people of the "can't afford a house, making 50K a year in a rural state" class in politics.

That would shake things up.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#33

Post by tlogan »

Michigan has relatively business-unfriendly laws and regulations.

Apparently their tax system is quite favorable to businesses, but taxes are only one (small) part of the equation. The taxes matter more once a company is making a lot of money.

In short, tax incentives and random per company “investments” (bribes?) are not enough to offset certain laws and regulations Michigan has.

I am not saying those laws and regulations are bad. I am just saying that targeted tax incentives and investment for specific companies are the wrong way to solve the problem.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#36

Post by vannevar »

ryandrake wrote: post #3

> A new report suggests the state of Michigan is the latest to learn that lesson the hard way. There doesn’t seem to be any lesson-learning happening, since governments keep trying this despite the outcome always being the same.

>There doesn’t seem to be any lesson-learning happening...

Which would indicate that creating jobs was not the actual reason for the grants. Given how trivially easy it would be fix the problem (simply make the grant contingent on the creation of jobs, otherwise it converts to a loan), the real purpose is probably a matter of generating headlines and raking in campaign contributions (with occasional full-on kickbacks probably happening as well). All of which it apparently does well enough that politicians continue to do it.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#37

Post by kortilla »

Claiming the state “spent” money when it’s something like a tax incentive is completely disingenuous bullshit. This article does this in spades to come up with this huge billion dollar figure.

“We won’t collect additional property taxes on this new thing you’re building for 10 years” is not the same thing as spending money. If a business doesn’t start there instead you don’t get any money at all. So in both scenarios you get no tax revenue but without the business you hurt your own economy.

It’s not taxpayer money being sent away. It’s tax collection policy and if we claim tax exemptions are spending money, then the government is also spending billions on non-profits and low income households.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#39

Post by diogenescynic »

tantalor wrote: post #9
tancop wrote: post #5

selectively giving away free money to big business is straight corruption. there is no other way to put it. everyone involved should lose re election and get investigated by the financial crimes unit. but i dont think "leave it up to the market" is a better idea. investments like this just need to be transparent, open to everyone and set up strict punishment for stealing the money with prison for executives. if they…

One idea I like is directly funding apprenticeship. It pays for job training and classroom instruction on a per-individual basis. The jobs are in long-term career sectors like advanced manufacturing, shipbuilding, aviation, healthcare, and technology. Here's one example: https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/osec/osec20250923 In Georgia, the employer is reimbursed $2,500 when an apprentice starts and up to $10,000 wh…

[flagged]

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#40

Post by diogenescynic »

tancop wrote: post #5

selectively giving away free money to big business is straight corruption. there is no other way to put it. everyone involved should lose re election and get investigated by the financial crimes unit. but i dont think "leave it up to the market" is a better idea. investments like this just need to be transparent, open to everyone and set up strict punishment for stealing the money with prison for executives. if they…

They're always handed out as political favors or lotteries at best. How is a lottery sustainable or scalable? These solutions do not work. It's at best virtue signaling and at worst corruption (as OP says).
Post reply on HN