Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

psychologytoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 555 posts

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#101

Post by JumpCrisscross »

9x39 wrote: post #60
ceejayoz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does there have to be a downside? What was the downside of washing hands before surgery?

Because our bodies are delicate systems of networks, and inputs in one area can have complex/unpredictable outputs elsewhere, it seems. Typically, if something "works", there often appear to be side effects. A free lunch is rare. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/understanding-medica...

> Typically, if something "works", there often appear to be side effects

Unless it’s literally a deficit. There isn’t a downside to treating vitamin C deficiency with vitamin C.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#102

Post by 9x39 »

krackers wrote: post #88
9x39 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our bodies are delicate systems of networks, and inputs in one area can have complex/unpredictable outputs elsewhere, it seems. Typically, if something "works", there often appear to be side effects. A free lunch is rare. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/understanding-medica...

The fact that GLP-1 seems to have roles not just in satiety but that agonists seem to reduce other types of impulsiveness (e.g. gambling, shopping) is interesting. That's not something you'd predict as a consequence, and perhaps is downstream of some gut-brain connection. Of course we already manipulate brain chemistry in other more direct ways with antidepressants so perhaps any unwanted second-order effects could b…

Yeah, that's a good point. I hadn't heard about impulsiveness. I had read that taste preferences changed - e.g., salty, sweet, savory, fatty:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7105351/

I've been watching developments on how GLP1s seem to go beyond just hunger/insulin response, even how they may affect symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), which is difficult on women who have it:

https://academic.oup.com/ejendo/article/194/3/S25/8488941

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#103

Post by 9x39 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #99
9x39 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you dislike the personal responsibility angle, which is fine but separate from caloric intake being the source of obesity. The fat is stored energy from food, it would violate conservation of energy otherwise. There's metabolism, food density, food availability, psychology, culture, economics, etc in play, but it's important not to lie to ourselves that the proximal cause of obesity isn't from over consumptio…

> dislike the personal responsibility angle I dislike the rejection of evidence. These drugs solve a problem. Preaching personal responsibility does not. In that way it almost reminds me of drug prohibition and abstinence-only rhetoric.

The evidence of where their fat stores came from?

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#104

Post by buck746 »

thereisnospork wrote: post #80
9x39 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were a normal weight they would not have been prescribed the drug. The underlying issue is they're overweight because they eat too much. Anything more is speculation. There is usually no free lunch when it comes to pharma, and extrapolating long term or lifetime dependence as being equivalent to short term interventions is an unsupported leap.

Nonsense, one not just as easily say they are overweight because they aren't taking enough GLP-1 agonists. A patient with scurvy is proscribed vitamin C - they might even need to take it for the rest of their lives to stay healthy. Woe is them I guess for their chemical dependence.

One could even argue food is a lifetime chemical dependance. An assortment of chemicals really with the amino acids, lipids and sugars involved. People who are against these medications typically draw arbitrary lines for what treatments are "acceptable".

Until starting tirzepitide I always thought about food, now I don't. Had depressive issues since I was a teenager as well. I took Wellbutrin for 20 years and had an interruption in the last six weeks due to an insurance issue. Payed for the tirzepetide out of pocket, take that once a week, my depression is manageable without the Wellbutrin for the first time in my life. I'm still going thru depression, but that's due to my husbands death in early March. If I wasn't taking my weekly shot I would easily be morbidly obese and probably suicidal. The cost isn't an issue either, I would spend more on food that I'm not buying or eating each month than it costs to buy the medication.

Just because something might not be interesting to someone doesn't mean it has no value. I have no interest in sports, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. I could argue they shouldn't be as prominent in society but that's a different argument.

If you have struggled with your weight, depression, have early warning signs of cardiac problems and a range of other conditions it can be worth considering semaglutide or terzepitide. As long as you stick to the lowest dose that's effective the side effects are minimal to non existent. Categorically dismissing these drugs is as silly as refusing pain meds because "god designed us to experience pain".

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#105

Post by 9x39 »

nihonde wrote: post #77
SubiculumCode wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this morning, I cut another hole in my belt. Turns out, losing weight and being thin was never about willpower or laziness in the face of absolute food abundance. It was mostly about whether a person was born lucky enough to have a moderate appetite, or was born burdened by exaggerated appetite. The underlying issue is physiological food cravings, not some personal failing or lack of willpower, and GLP-1 absolute…

The idea that appetites are assigned at birth is a bold claim. Is there evidence to support it?

Well, not assigned by the hospital or your parents, but being a DNA-based lifeform a genetic baseline is a safe assumption. Experiences vary after that:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3052625/

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#106

Post by buck746 »

crooked-v wrote: post #59
joshuamcginnis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a distinct difference between taking medicine for things you can fix on your own (diet + exercise) vs things you cannot (excess acid production).

I'm not on GLP-1s, but I've been looking at very seriously because something I can't "fix on my own" is just... always feeling hungry. That's just how my body works. Exercise doesn't help; there's no reasonable amount of exercise that will help with my office-worker stomach wanting 3000 calories a day. So far through my life I've just lived with it and managed my diet as best I can and it just absolutely sucks.

Terzepitide took me from always wanting food to actually being able to focus on other things fully. I was concerned with being able to inject myself weekly, but it's easy and worth the 1-2 minutes a week. If you start, the dosage schedule is more a suggestion than an absolute. I noticed side effects getting worse so I dropped back to a lower dose and have held there for a couple months now. Only real drawback has been from a friend giving me a hard time after seeing the vial in my fridge, but he seems to be coming around after seeing obvious results.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#107

Post by tsol »

rubicon33 wrote: post #8
randycupertino wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on GLP-1 and it's completely stopped my urge to online shop. I used to browse/shop for fun and out of habit or when I was stressed out or wanted a treat etc. Entirely resolved! I've also lost 40lbs on it.

Do you honestly believe in the so called “free lunch”? I mean there are MANY substances you can presently take that make you feel way better, but always come with a cost or a downside. Why should we believe GLP-1 class drugs are any different?

Antibiotics are pretty much a free lunch but they exist. Completely stops deadly disease without causing any long term damage. They exist it's just rare

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#108

Post by buck746 »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #82
saberience wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The problem with exercise is that our bodies are quite efficient with their energy usage. A few minutes of ‘calories in’ takes many hours of ‘calories out’ to burn. You can’t really exercise enough to offset the food you can eat in a day, even if you somehow were able to dedicate all your time to exercising you would still have to limit your food intake. Add to that the fact that exercise is mind numbingly boring and…

More importantly we have decades of irrefutable evidence that diet and exercise alone are about as effective as abstinence only sex education. It's great there are people that can just decide to eat less, but it's foolish to assume that can work for everyone.

It's odd how people act as tho there's a "moral argument" against using a tool to help reach the goal. It feels a lot like the argument that "morals are from religion", as if you need god to know that murder isn't really a productive activity (unless you work in a slaughterhouse).

I wish American money could go back to having "mind your business" printed on it instead of "in god we trust", it was a huge loss to all of us when that garbage was passed. It was also a huge loss when everyone just decided to go along with saying "taxpayer money" instead of saying "public funds/money", but slippery psychological slopes are everywhere.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#109

Post by buck746 »

hellzbellz123 wrote: post #9

As a habitual habit developer, Im keeping my hopes up that in 5 or 10 years, this is something that can help me and many others. I've read experiences from people on illicit substances that claimed they helped them quit. It would be beat if this carried over to things like caffeine/nicotine/thc/etc.

There's anecdotal accounts of GLP meds helping with a range of addictions. Of course in science anecdotal accounts are the lowest tier of evidence, that's only top shelf in law.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#110

Post by cflewis »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #98
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the problem with these new weight loss drugs. Ultimately they work by reducing food intake. For many people food is one of the few things in life that gives them some form of joy. I won’t ever take any drug that will take that away from me. Life is depressing enough as is. What we need is a weight loss drug that lets you eat unlimited amounts of food, preferably even suppressing the feeling of fullness, withou…

> that will take that away from me They don’t stop eating, just overeating. Getting joy from food is different from self medicating with overconsumption. (For the record, I love food. I also don’t have an issue maintaining a healthy weight and physique.)

This is it.

I am on GLP-1 (Zepbound). I have done Weight Watchers multiple times. I'd lose the weight for a little bit, then it would come back. The reason was _I was hungry all the time_. It's not sustainable. As someone else in WW told me: "The easy bit is losing the weight. The hard part is continuing to eat that way your whole life."

It's simply a faulty hunger sensor in my body. It was not what I was eating, simply how much.

GLP-1s fix the sensor. It's really simple. Nothing else to it.

I still enjoy food (although my palette has turned away from anything greasy, which is for the better anyway), but I can finally understand why someone would eat half a plate of something and say "I'm good" and actually mean it rather than trying to diet/starve themselves.

Post reply on HN