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What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

psychologytoday.com

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Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#71

Post by fragmede »

joshuamcginnis wrote: post #16

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

The drug stops working if you stop taking it? Shocking! Heart medication for hypertension also stops working if you don't take it. Sure there's a vast conspiracy by the pharmaceutical industry to hook us all on drugs because we can't learn to exercise, but that's hardly Ozempic's fault. Now if you were looking at brain surgery that zaps the reward center of the brain causing permanent changes so the patient was less addicted to food, but the patient kept needing to have brain surgery, then you'd have a point, but "drug stops working if you don't take it" is hardly the gotcha some make it out to be. Insulin also stops working for diabetics if they don't take it. That's kind of medication's whole deal.

Now that we know obesity can be controlled via medication, and it'll cost $foo over the lifetime of the patient, the next step is to optimize. If there is a treatment involving ultrasonic brain surgery that costs less than $foo, the expectation is for the market to find that. Ultrasonic brain surgery is in its infancy, but it's already showing utility for Alzheimer's and addiction. The real question is if the pharma companies are going to be able to keep it from going mainstream because it's less profitable for them.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#72

Post by yakz »

kolinko wrote: post #48
3stacks wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the food equivalent of declaring bankruptcy. If you don’t fix the behaviours you’ll just end up in debt again.

This assumes underlying behaviours are core reason. Research (tein, adoption) suggests otherwise

Practically speaking, any person could starve themself (short of death) and lose weight. In almost all cases there is no magic to storing more energy than you need.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#73

Post by habinero »

sandcat_ wrote: post #7
randycupertino wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on GLP-1 and it's completely stopped my urge to online shop. I used to browse/shop for fun and out of habit or when I was stressed out or wanted a treat etc. Entirely resolved! I've also lost 40lbs on it.

I'm curious, has it affected pleasure at all in other areas of life? Are things you used to enjoy still as enjoyable? Is it more the "addictiveness" of things that has dropped, as opposed to how enjoyable they are? (Never tried them myself, but very intrigued by them.)

It's more like...you just don't want them? It's kind of wild. The first week I took them, I discovered there was a loop in my brain that was constantly thinking about food, and I never realized until it got switched off.

That's the best way I can describe it. I could basically always eat before and now I just...don't feel like it lol.

I will say, they are rough when you first start out on them. During the 1st 6-8 weeks I had several instances of maaaaaybe five seconds of warning between feeling nauseated and vomiting.

It settles down after a couple months and it was never bad enough to be a dealbreaker, but it's a fun time.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#74

Post by coffeemug »

LaurensBER wrote: post #31
joshuamcginnis wrote: post #16

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

I've gained and lost 10kg twice in my life. Maintaining the weight loss isn't that hard once you've a rhythm dialed in. In my case I just weight myself daily, track the weight and scale my food consumption with the current trend. If I'm gaining weight I'll skip a meal. It takes a while to figure out what works for you but I can tell you that making small lifestyle changes to maintain your weight is fairly easy compar…

When I was lifting weights I went from 170lbs to 210, and back to 170. Doing that isn’t technically hard, and maintaining is even easier. But I had to think about it _all_ the time. Maybe it’s because I’m older now, but I just don’t want to spend that much effort thinking about food.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#75

Post by Aaargh20318 »

9x39 wrote: post #55
wpm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? People take depression meds, blood pressure meds, all kinds of meds for their whole life. I'll be on omeprazole for reflux my whole life. It doesn't solve the underlying problem of my gut being prone to overpumping acid into my stomach. So omeprazole is problematic? The underlying issue is being treated, it's treated by taking the drug. It works. It's doing its job. I'd be curious as to how you came to this…

If they were a normal weight they would not have been prescribed the drug. The underlying issue is they're overweight because they eat too much. Anything more is speculation. There is usually no free lunch when it comes to pharma, and extrapolating long term or lifetime dependence as being equivalent to short term interventions is an unsupported leap.

That’s the problem with these new weight loss drugs. Ultimately they work by reducing food intake.

For many people food is one of the few things in life that gives them some form of joy. I won’t ever take any drug that will take that away from me. Life is depressing enough as is.

What we need is a weight loss drug that lets you eat unlimited amounts of food, preferably even suppressing the feeling of fullness, without gaining weight.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#76

Post by SpaceNugget »

saberience wrote: post #69
crooked-v wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not on GLP-1s, but I've been looking at very seriously because something I can't "fix on my own" is just... always feeling hungry. That's just how my body works. Exercise doesn't help; there's no reasonable amount of exercise that will help with my office-worker stomach wanting 3000 calories a day. So far through my life I've just lived with it and managed my diet as best I can and it just absolutely sucks.

[flagged]

They said exercise doesn't help them with reducing the feeling of hunger. I don't know why they thought it would, because generally if you do a lot of exercise you get more hungry not less hungry, but regardless, you are responding to something that wasn't said.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#77

Post by nihonde »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #65
joshuamcginnis wrote: post #16

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

And this morning, I cut another hole in my belt. Turns out, losing weight and being thin was never about willpower or laziness in the face of absolute food abundance. It was mostly about whether a person was born lucky enough to have a moderate appetite, or was born burdened by exaggerated appetite. The underlying issue is physiological food cravings, not some personal failing or lack of willpower, and GLP-1 absolute…

The idea that appetites are assigned at birth is a bold claim. Is there evidence to support it?

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#78

Post by applfanboysbgon »

ceejayoz wrote: post #27
joshuamcginnis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a distinct difference between taking medicine for things you can fix on your own (diet + exercise) vs things you cannot (excess acid production).

> things you can fix on your own (diet + exercise) We have decades of research showing this is more in the "excess acid production" realm of things.

We also know there's a replication crisis in psychology and medicine, that it's easy to publish results that show the effect you're looking for, that there are rich, developed countries with obesity rates <5%, and that the obesity rate for Western countries spiked in recent years. This idea that Americans are genetically pre-ordained to be fat seems like fanciful thinking.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#79

Post by habinero »

crooked-v wrote: post #59
joshuamcginnis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a distinct difference between taking medicine for things you can fix on your own (diet + exercise) vs things you cannot (excess acid production).

I'm not on GLP-1s, but I've been looking at very seriously because something I can't "fix on my own" is just... always feeling hungry. That's just how my body works. Exercise doesn't help; there's no reasonable amount of exercise that will help with my office-worker stomach wanting 3000 calories a day. So far through my life I've just lived with it and managed my diet as best I can and it just absolutely sucks.

Yeah, I posted elsewhere about it, but GLPs instantly switched that feeling off like it was throwing a breaker. It's wild.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#80

Post by thereisnospork »

9x39 wrote: post #55
wpm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? People take depression meds, blood pressure meds, all kinds of meds for their whole life. I'll be on omeprazole for reflux my whole life. It doesn't solve the underlying problem of my gut being prone to overpumping acid into my stomach. So omeprazole is problematic? The underlying issue is being treated, it's treated by taking the drug. It works. It's doing its job. I'd be curious as to how you came to this…

If they were a normal weight they would not have been prescribed the drug. The underlying issue is they're overweight because they eat too much. Anything more is speculation. There is usually no free lunch when it comes to pharma, and extrapolating long term or lifetime dependence as being equivalent to short term interventions is an unsupported leap.

Nonsense, one not just as easily say they are overweight because they aren't taking enough GLP-1 agonists. A patient with scurvy is proscribed vitamin C - they might even need to take it for the rest of their lives to stay healthy.

Woe is them I guess for their chemical dependence.

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