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Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

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141–150 of 231 posts

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#141
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cows can't roll that fast.

It takes a stupid cow, but when they can climb mountains as they do it is not inconcievable that one can roll down. (I was suprised to see a cow jumping up on a ~3m rock ledge like it was nothing)

However, they can go up stairs, but not down them.

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#142
post #104
post #98

Ron Maimon uses an argument that relies purely on symmetry, which circumvents the standard explanations, including many in this thread. In some sense, this is the simplified version of Noether's theorem (as far as I understand it). As an aside, I believe Ron Maimon's account was suspended after he challenged the character of someone who was soliciting votes for a moderator position. Ron Maimon's stance was that if so…

It wasn’t “prescient”, StackExchange sites have always been among the most hostile communities on the Internet. Today they are additionally weighed down by increasingly erratic management decisions desperately trying to extract as much monetary value as possible before AI completely obsoletes SE, but the amount of aggression and hostility on the network was unbearable from the start. I remember dozens of occasions wh…

Farmers are desperately trying to milk (hah) as much monetary value as possible from their cows before packaged milk obsolesces them completely!

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#144

Fun little anecdote: A blue care is travelling along at 70 units, and a red car (exact same make and model) is catching up to it going 100. When they're both right beside each other a bend in the road reveals an obstacle blocking both lanes, so both cars brake at the same intensity and deceleration. The blue care stops right before the obstacle. Since the red car was going at a faster speed, and braked at the same ra…

Very upset this didn't rely on doppler shifting of the car colors

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#145

Cheat answer: velocity is a vector, and can be negative, while KE is a scalar and has to be positive. Therefore you have to square v to get rid of the minus sign. Why not take the absolute value? Nature hates those, probably because the derivative is undefined at 0. So squaring it is.

> Why not take the absolute value? Nature hates those

And yet inverse distance laws for potential energy for gravity and electric fields use the absolute value because they require an unsigned distance and how you treat the singularity at zero is extremely important to the structure of those interactions

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#146
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good question, and I suppose the mgh formula isn't a suitable answer, so my answer would be something like: if you lift an object to some height, and then you repeat that action (lifting it from there to twice the height), you've done twice the work, and doing twice the work requires twice the caloric intake.

Okay but that depends on the intuitions the question is trying to justify, which makes it circular. We also know, for example, that the body uses more than twice as much energy to do twice as much work (because of fatigue on the muscles or whatever the right term is here). In fact it takes positive energy just told a weight at a fixed height, doing zero mechanical work! So you’re actually appealing to even weaker int…

> In fact it takes positive energy just told a weight at a fixed height, doing zero mechanical work!

Stacking a weight on top of a table holds it at a fixed height and requires zero mechanical work.

The failure in intuition here relates to physiology and the mechanism by which muscles work, not physics. Myosin and actin are constantly cycling through bonding and release during muscle contraction, as this is how the shortening action actually occurs. In fact, muscle contraction is particularly unintuitive because people frequently consider ATP the "energy currency", yet the ATP-consuming steps are actually the release/relaxation and preparation for binding, not the pulling action. This is also why the phenomena of rigor mortis upon death occurs.

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#147

Every time in physics you see quadratic, you should think sphere. There is some rotation invariance hidden in the velocity physics because you can rotate the velocity vector of an object without having to spend energy (The force you need to apply is perpendicular to the velocity so does no work). The typical example is you have a ball fall 1m vertically, then have a 90° bend which convert the vertical velocity into h…

> Every time in physics you see quadratic, you should think sphere.

Not sure how I reconcile that for systems with linear symmetry that don't admit a sphere such as a 1D harmonic oscillator (i.e. a spring). You're confusing the fact that spheres require quadratics but quadratics are not sufficient to admit a sphere.

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#148

Why is this a question on Hacker News? Are many people struggling with this?

"If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#149
post #70

Kinetic energy is, strangely, quite a bit like a least squares cost function in an optimization problem. The "dt"s in "dx/dt" hardly matter; it basically represents "dx^2" between the current state and the next.

If I follow you, that's not strange. That's exactly how Lagrangian mechanics are formulated (minimizing the action which has exactly the kinetic energy as a term to be minimized against a potential energy term) which rests on well-founded symmetry principles.

Re: Why does kinetic energy increase quadratically, not linearly, with speed? (2011)

#150
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The blue car, using ½mv², shed (~70²=) 4900 units of energy (we'll hand wave away the constants). So the red car, which had (100²=) 10000 units of kinetic energy to start, also shed 4900 units, which means it had 5100 units of energy when it collided, and so was going (√5100~) 71 But if the cars produce downforce this is no longer true because you brake harder (more friction available) at higher speeds! This is how…

1. +1 insightful, thanks for sharing your physics knowledge 2. I know you know this, but for the sake of others, it's when _braking_ (applying the brakes), not _breaking_ (becoming broken). I'm not a pedant. But these errors jump out at me and I'm always a bit surprised and dismayed at this dichotomy; in our field, somehow the requisite attention to detail, the precision inherent to communicating scientific concepts,…

Brake or break? Both are correct: if you don't do one you do the other.
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