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We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

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Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#141
post #85

My kindergartner has a 3D printer. I got a call from the school principal. She said “another parent called and said your son 3D printed a gun and brought it to school”. I looked at the print history. It was a tiny toy mandalorian figurine holding a blaster pistol in his hand. I bought my son a bigger 3D printer and told him to stop playing with that boy.

If you have the resources, you could also serve her with papers. IANAL, but that arguably is libel, defamation, harassment and so incredibly insane that it deserves a severe legal smackdown.

So their child was accused of 3D printing a gun and taking it in to school, the parent confirmed online that, yes, their child did 3D print a gun and take it to school ... I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve.

It's not libel, it's a misunderstanding.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...our choices are to allow widespread 3D printed firearms... Which parts of a firearm can be printed in a consumer-grade 3D printer? Be as specific as your knowledge permits. Of those that cannot, how much money does one have to spend in order to purchase a 3D printer that is capable of printing those parts that cannot be printed by a consumer-grade printer? Are you aware of "slam fire" firearms? If you were not,…

You don't need to print anything, just visit your neighborhood hardware store

Correct! That's why I mentioned "slam fire" firearms.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He started with tinkercad and thingiverse. I tried basic elegoo and bambu printers. He can’t read very well but he likes dragging shapes around on a tablet. He would ask me to find shapes using the search engines then he mixes them together or reshapes them. I would add them to his history. This is why I was surprised to hear about 3D printed guns. I was quite sure there wasn’t anything like that in the history. It w…

>It was a good discussion topic about why adults get so bothered by things that look like guns. I think that's because parent-child is the strongest bond known to humanity, so anything symbolic of (or against) child safety evokes the strongest emotional responses we can ever have. Guns, when loaded, are one of the extremely few consumer objects capable of being held in a child's hand and, with a physical ease similar…

Guns have always posed that risk to children. Despite that, the schools, at least around here, used to have shooting ranges and the kids would bring their guns to school to make use of them! Hard to believe now, and as you can image those ranges have been since decommissioned, but nobody batted an eye back in the day.

Key point here is that adults haven't always been bothered by things that look like guns. That is something that has emerged recently. What changed?

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#144

Looks even more draconian than the New York law. For example, it seems to mandate proprietary, locked down slicers from the printer manufacturer. -- For integrated preprint software [slicer] design, guidance for how vendors shall demonstrate that printers will accept print jobs exclusively through authorized and validated software systems and will not accept print jobs from unauthorized software pathways, including a…

Over the last few years, I’ve felt as though I’ve been living in a feverish dream all the time. Laws, regulations and general changes in the world are so detached from reality and so far removed from the reality they are meant to serve. And this is yet another example.

>Laws, regulations and general changes in the world are so detached from reality and so far removed from the reality they are meant to serve.

Yet I bet you kept voting for the same parties that keep passing such laws.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#145
The racketeering statutes should be applied to the treasonous elites within business, government, and banking who conspire to use "private-public" partnerships to subvert the U.S. Constitution and our indiviudual rights. I further believe these individuals and groups need to be arrested, prosecuted, and punished to the full extent that the treason clause permits.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...our choices are to allow widespread 3D printed firearms... Which parts of a firearm can be printed in a consumer-grade 3D printer? Be as specific as your knowledge permits. Of those that cannot, how much money does one have to spend in order to purchase a 3D printer that is capable of printing those parts that cannot be printed by a consumer-grade printer? Are you aware of "slam fire" firearms? If you were not,…

I'm aware of "slam fire" firearms and know why and how it's easy to produce them. They're much less concerning to me because their rate of fire is extremely slow. I don't know the details of what can be printed in a consumer-grade printer, not having performed firearms manufacturing myself, but I've seen things claiming to be pretty complete kits and it seems to me that most components should be possible. Barrels of…

> They're much less concerning to me because their rate of fire is extremely slow.

Not if you make a multi-barreled one and spend some time practicing. [0] Go check out some youtube videos... some of those kids are kinda nuts. But, okay, I believe you when you say that you're unconcerned about firearms with a low rate of fire.

> I don't know the details of what can be printed in a consumer-grade printer...

I expected this, yeah.

With a consumer-grade 3D printer you can't print the things you need for anything much better in the rate-of-fire department than a "slam fire" firearm. To make a semi-auto firearm, you need springs and a rod that are fairly strong and heat resistant to make the shock absorber that drives the gas-powered mechanism that ejects the empty cartridge after firing. You also need a cylinder that can contain the pressure and heat of the gases from the burning powder in the cartridge, as well as provide a straight guide for the bullet so that you hit what you're aiming at. For reliability, you'll probably want a metal firing pin. Your rate-of-fire concerns mean that you're worried about magazine-fed firearms, so you also want decent springs in the magazine to reliably feed ammunition.

Because you're concerned about firearms that aren't low rate of fire, all of these things need to reliably perform for more than a handful of firings.

> ...but I've seen things claiming to be pretty complete kits...

Looks like you never did the inventory on those kits. For any kit that is actually going to give you what you're scared of, you'll find that the parts of the firearm that actually do the hard work are not going to be 3D printed.

You've professed ignorance of what can be printed in a low-end 3D printer, but do you happen to be familiar with what can be made in a high-end 3D printer? If you are, would you care to tell me how much money you need to pay for a 3D printer that will generate reliable springs, shock-absorption assembly, and barrel that will function for more than a couple of shots?

> If it's not actually possible to 3D print an effective gun, perhaps someone should make that argument in detail.

So, there's the video at [1]. That's the guy's second attempt at a barrel for .22 caliber ammo, and it's... ineffective. I also want to call your attention to this short Popular Science news article from fourteen years ago. [2] Notice the discrepancy between what's described by the headline and the article body "3D printed assault rifle made from ABS!" and the truth exposed by the picture of the actual firearm... the important parts of the firearm are made of metal, rather than ABS.

I mention that Popsci article to demonstrate to you that the "3D printed gun" hysteria is not new, and the folks making the claims that one can just go up and get a fully-functional magazine-fed semiautomatic pistol or rifle straight (and entirely) from one's consumer-grade home printer are just lying.

[0] Anyone who has decided to use "slam fire" firearms to harm someone is clearly unconcerned with safety, so they could even make several to dangle from their belt to increase their effective rate of fire.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AA0R11oU90>

[2] https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/working-as...>

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#147
post #85

My kindergartner has a 3D printer. I got a call from the school principal. She said “another parent called and said your son 3D printed a gun and brought it to school”. I looked at the print history. It was a tiny toy mandalorian figurine holding a blaster pistol in his hand. I bought my son a bigger 3D printer and told him to stop playing with that boy.

If you have the resources, you could also serve her with papers. IANAL, but that arguably is libel, defamation, harassment and so incredibly insane that it deserves a severe legal smackdown.

US lawsuit culture is absolutely insane.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#148

We're bombing Iran to suppress technology form the 40s. We're suppressing advanced AI. We're suppressing 3d printer technology. Then there are the encryption wars. Control of advanced technology, not just weapons, is a larger and larger battle every year. When the robots get here, you'll need the governments ok to do anything at all with a robot. Mark Andreessen's comments that government regulators told him that the…

Mark Andreessen has joined the FUD party, he's knowingly regurgitating a fake narrative.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#149
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just reeeeeally want to believe, more than other states, that our government is The Good Guys and we can Fix The Problems if we only added more laws and more taxes. Every two years we are presented with 20 earnest-seeming ballot measures that each have roughly this message: > "We have a major problem in California -- ____ is not as ____ as it should be. Prop 1234 authorizes the state to sell $__,000,000,000 in bon…

Yes, that has been clear for a long time, about as long as CA has been a one-party state. The real question is why you supposedly smart Californians keep on falling for the... same... old... lie... every... damn... time. It is not as if the pie-in-the-sky people haven't promised a chicken in every pot and a cow in every shed and a car on every driveway - replace these with whatever modern equivalents you like - a tho…

calling California a one-party-state is a bit exagerated: even the Democrats have had a governor from time to time too, in the past 100 (or the past 60, or the past 40) years

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#150
post #18

I am old enough to remember when the fax machine first became ubiquitous in the 80's and read about how the Soviets were threatened by it. Unauthorized use was a crime and they stationed guards at fax machines to prevent mis-use. Perhaps I naively fell for CIA propaganda at the time but if true we can hope/estimate that California Commies will fall in less than 10 years since things are moving much faster in today's…

It wasn't just fax machines. Throughout the Eastern bloc, typewriters were strictly controlled and registered. There's a great scene in The Lives of Others [1], a German movie about a Stasi agent and a dissident writer, in which the Stasi (East German secret police) have recovered a typed manuscript that was smuggled to the West, and are interviewing a forensic expert to determine the make/model of typewriter used, i…

The Lives of Others is a seriously underrated movie. I highly suggest watching it.
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