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We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

akrites.org

71–80 of 257 posts

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#71
post #29

No we won’t. We’ll make grand statements about it, leave it for commercial entities to corrupt it, then complain loudly about the state of it when we really did nothing about it. I expect we’ve got a future of “undo forks” as I’ve called them which is rolling back to pre-insanity times and rethinking again. That’s only something people unencumbered by commercial requirements can do.

Its worse. Open source will be hijacked by hype warfare companies to extract free labour and build the things they want instead of the things we want.

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#72

> We are joined by Amazon Web Services, Anthropic, Chainguard, Cisco, Citi, Endor Labs, Ericsson, Google, IBM, JPMorganChase, Microsoft and GitHub, NVIDIA, OpenAI, RapidFort, Red Hat, Rust Foundation, Sonatype, Vodafone, and Zscaler Many of the names on the list makes the initiative rather suspect. Companies who do a lot to undermine free and open-source software, who hide critical software behind their walls, preven…

Not...really? It's pretty normal. Tech companies share intelligence and knowledge all the time -- there are a lot of birds of a feather and consortium groups out there.

Since a lot of places are close in proximity, companies sometimes run private fiber lines and such to let peers download updates without competing with the entire world lol.

Everyone's fighting the same fight. Sharing and collaborating are normal things.

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#73
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To save others a search: > The akritai (singular akrites) is a term used in the Byzantine Empire in the 9th–11th centuries to denote the frontier soldiers guarding the Empire's eastern border, facing the Muslim states of the Middle East. (Wikipedia) Akron means edge or border, so "frontiersman" or "those of the border". EDIT: Commenters seem upset about the Muslim part, I didn’t mean to imply anything, you cannot jus…

> facing the Muslim states of the Middle East. if true, then choosing this name was a very bad decision. Imagine how Muslims would feel, demonizing them even more, before they were terrorists, now they are attacking open source and hence some organizations need akrites to defend from them. I really wish such organizations which try to demonize anyone, to fail miserably

To be fair, the Akritai was the Byzantine Empire's effort to use the local population to defend the land, instead of having to deploy regular Army or mercenaries. It happened to be Muslim states that was the border. It bears no anti-muslim connotations as a word in Greek. In fact the epic of Digenes Akritas, speaks of Basil, an Akritas of a Greek mother and an Arab father (hence the name Digenes, of two descents).

But still, the name is a bad, uninformed choice.

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#74
post #29

No we won’t. We’ll make grand statements about it, leave it for commercial entities to corrupt it, then complain loudly about the state of it when we really did nothing about it. I expect we’ve got a future of “undo forks” as I’ve called them which is rolling back to pre-insanity times and rethinking again. That’s only something people unencumbered by commercial requirements can do.

Commercial entities are 95% of useful open-source (Linux, Postgres and similar — excluding leftstr-type of utilities).

Debian, KDE…

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#75
post #29

No we won’t. We’ll make grand statements about it, leave it for commercial entities to corrupt it, then complain loudly about the state of it when we really did nothing about it. I expect we’ve got a future of “undo forks” as I’ve called them which is rolling back to pre-insanity times and rethinking again. That’s only something people unencumbered by commercial requirements can do.

In a certain way, moving from "Free Software" to "Open Source" started this transition and it's not slowing down.

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#76
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defeatism is easy

> Defeatism is easy I prefer easy. If you prefer difficult, more power to you.

It's the same easy as falling out of a plane without a parachute. Gravity will do all the work but you'll not like what happens at the bottom.

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#78
After reading this. I realize how different Asian and Western consciousness really are.

My entire technology stack was built on Microsoft's ecosystem, not on open source. This was Microsoft's attempt to expand their base for the corporate hiring market and OS market share.

Conversely, open source was a huge barrier for me. When I have a product I've built, I have to get past open source, but accessing open source comes with the barrier of English. And once you get past the English barrier, you hit the cultural barrier.

My hobby projects do integrate with open source, but all the technology that actually makes me money depends entirely on the Microsoft ecosystem. Most of the Asian developers around me are also tied to specific vendors. On the other hand, the Korean companies that do have a culture of contributing to open source are large corporations, and entry is determined by academic pedigree.

Because the entire context of open source is in English, and learning English reliably is expensive in itself. So to properly work as a developer in Korea, you actually need to be vendor dependent. The corporate ecosystem is not oppression; it is the only viable path to education and survival. If you want to grasp the latest trends, you ultimately need curation from a specific company. Some people say Hangul is a great writing system, but to me, this is where it becomes a curse and a shackle.

So when I read Hacker News, I feel just how large the gap in thinking is between the West and the East. The Japanese developers I have talked to mostly talk about coding within corporate environments rather than open source, and Chinese developers are also shaped by their corporate environments. But the posts on HN talk about their 'gardens' being ruined and absorbed by corporations, and they resist that. But since I was raised in a corporate environment from the start, I cannot imagine a different one, so this resistance tends to feel like an aristocratic hobby to me.

On the flip side, HN might see corporations as predators. Technology should be a commons, and developers should be free, not tenant farmers of a platform.

But the irony I personally feel is that to protect this 'garden commons,' they end up creating centralized, non-public coordination mechanisms with the very corporations that plunder the commons. That feels contradictory to me.

For security vulnerability response, non-public coordination may be necessary. If a vulnerability is disclosed before a patch is ready, attackers can create exploits. But the principle of open source is transparency and open discussion, while the Akrites-style security principle is non-public coordination and a single point of contact.

On top of that, corporations used open source as free infrastructure, and now that the risk has grown, they are building corporate-led governance systems based on that risk. That feels ambiguous to me. Of course, open source sponsorship has always had some tension, but if that was buying a craftsman's work, this looks more like buying the craftsman's workshop.

I wonder how Westerners would read this. I am curious. To me, this looks like a political struggle to take control of governance over the commons. Do Westerners see it as the Avengers? The difference in mindset is sometimes painful.

Re: We all depend on open source. We will defend it together

#79
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defeatism is easy

Which is a large part of why what cryo32 said will come to pass.

Only if people succumb to defeatism. There have been documented instances of that not happening.
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