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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#391

Post by topato »

mannanj wrote: post #310
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #11

There's two basic kinds of distillation: 1) the massive [and dumb] method where you ask a question and use the answer as reinforcement (Black Box), and 2) more targeted distillation where you use one model to directly inform/train/guide another model (RLAIF). The latter is basically fine-tuning the model with direction from another model. Thousands of businesses do this every day to fine-tune. This is almost certainl…

>But if you show them a jailbreak of their model that bypasses their safety, they'll tell you that any model can eventually be jailbroken so don't worry about safety. Yes this is in line with what Anthropic said in their public statements about their Fable access restriction by the government directive. The hypocrisy and inconsistency in their statements and behavior feels quite childish and controlling. I believe ou…

Not to mention, the person who brought this quote unquote jailbreak to the Trump Administration was Amazon’s new CEO. They know their IPOs are coming up, so locking their competitors out of the U.S. (even if just for the weeks surrounding the IPO date) would be a major boon. The White House seems to love making announcements just for the sake of making the market move…. Coincidentally, right after POTUS buys a massive amount of the benefactory company’s stock (Buy Dell Computers, lol)

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#392

Post by vintermann »

whateverboat wrote: post #374
petterroea wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China aren't offering a cheaper solution. They are subsidizing an existing one (which is already subsidized) in order to gain foothold. The difference is that in the US subsidies come from VC, while OP implies subsidies come from the AI labs that buy the training data (which may as well also be VC backed, so just one extra hop). This isn't "the market working as intended", this is an exhaustion fight to the bottom wh…

I mean, for what it's worth, we have subsidized Anthropic by allowing them to train on copyrighted stuff. (I know it is still legal, and I support the legality, but the economics are what they are with people's content paying a big one time subsidized cost (to the level of at least 500B). So, the least Anthropic can do is pay it forward.

That's some "download a car", $100000 per infringement pricing logic. No one is paying anyone 500 billion dollars. I'm sure rights owners wanted that, and more too, but it's nonsense to call it a subsidy that they didn't get it.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#394

Post by callmeal »

cubefox wrote: post #360
fjdjshsh wrote: post #116

>The strike by Alibaba is described as a "distillation" effort, which Anthropic has said involves training a less capable model on the outputs of a stronger one. Claude used TB of content without permission to train their model and it was ok for them. Now someone else uses the output of a Claude model to train model and they cry foul.

It was not okay for them, they had to pay one billion dollars.

>It was not okay for them, they had to pay one billion dollars.

Essentially peanuts compared to what they would have to pay to obtain the rights of everything they pirated.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#395

Post by vintermann »

bandrami wrote: post #229
gruez wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814

The output of Claude is not eligible for copyright protection. I'm not sure how the analogy of bootlegging DVDs would work, given that.

I suppose you are violating the TOS by reselling a service, even if the output can't be claimed as belonging to anyone.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#396

Post by mastermedo »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #120
conception wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already did and paid 1.5B https://authorsguild.org/advocacy/artificial-intelligence/wh...

Quite amusing that the library of libgen is worth 1.5bil for unlimited access. It's about the same valuation as bun, lol.

$3,000 per title.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#397

Post by Anoian »

In Kindergarten there are three children, one has made a fun toy (copyrighted material), another took the toy and made a toy replication machine out of it without the first kids permission. The third kid replicated the toy creation machine by looking at it. The second kid is now accusing the third kid of theft.

I wouldn’t shout too loud if I were the second kid.

They’ve shouted before about the dangers of their favorite toy and the teacher took it away from them, lets see what happens if they shout too much this time.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#398

Post by blitzar »

tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

> Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices

How dare they. Only Anthropic is allowed to sell its tokens at 70-90% below the API prices.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#400

Post by osti »

ycui7 wrote: post #383
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

Those resellers are simply just selling Kimi K2.5 or GLM5.1 as counterfeit Opus. We, Chinese, know how to play the counterfeit game for a long time in so many industry.

That's not true, some of them are indeed fake, but a lot of them are actually providing real opus at low cost doing what op said.
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