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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#111

Post by hasteg »

nonethewiser wrote: post #43
walrus01 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your extremely efficient multi petabyte internet content suction machine is ripping off my extremely efficient multi petabyte internet content suction machine" Sucking down petabytes of peoples' copyrighted content that they never granted a specific license to you to use seems to be an unavoidable and default part of the process of building any huge LLM.

So why was there crawling in 1998 but no LLMs?

Because the transformer, which all of these models are foundationally built off of and didn't invent themselves (bar google) wasn't invented? The amount of effort it took humanity to generate all the data that was required for the models to get to the point they're at now is absolutely not even comparable to how much effort it took to build the model code. Yeah, it's complicated, but if they didn't rip off all of humanities combined output it wouldn't even matter if the transformer got invented.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#113

Post by kristofferR »

tristanj wrote: post #88
epsteingpt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they 'streaming' the responses and 'pooling' the tokens? Do they have MacBooks in the US that run the queries and stream the outputs back to China?

The resellers route requests via one of thousands of Claude Max 5x accounts. When an account reaches its usage limit, they automatically switch to another account.

Why would they use Max 5x instead of Max 20x, which is cheaper relatively speaking?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#114

Post by hoten »

dwa3592 wrote: post #106
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

>>Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. Can someone with more understanding dumb it down for me please. Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price???? why would XYZ offer this at a loss like that when they could just offer it at Anthropic's price??? The link does ment…

Because Anthropic's subscriptions come with X amount of tokens / week, and divided by the subscription cost it is WAY less than what they charge per-token (the "API price") beyond that.

So these resellers get a ton of accounts on subscriptions and sell the cheaper tokens.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#115

Post by gaiagraphia »

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about.

I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win.

Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#116

Post by fjdjshsh »

>The strike by Alibaba is described as a "distillation" effort, which Anthropic has said involves training a less capable model on the outputs of a stronger one.

Claude used TB of content without permission to train their model and it was ok for them. Now someone else uses the output of a Claude model to train model and they cry foul.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#119

Post by operatingthetan »

tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

This story reads like a William Gibson novel. Wild times.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#120

Post by gaiagraphia »

conception wrote: post #10
drillsteps5 wrote: post #3

I'm looking forward to the trial where Anthropic will have to disclose sources of their training data, and then explain why they are entitled to charging customers for using regurgitated training data but Alibaba which trains their models on Anthropic's models are not. Should be fun. Edit: clarification

They already did and paid 1.5B https://authorsguild.org/advocacy/artificial-intelligence/wh...

Quite amusing that the library of libgen is worth 1.5bil for unlimited access.

It's about the same valuation as bun, lol.

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