It’s hard to see how distillation is any different than how these models were created in the first place - siphoning up all human knowledge without consent, credit, or compensation
Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
381–390 of 1001 posts
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bootlegging is copyright theft. Is Claude output copyrighted? If anything, a tremendous amount of Claude’s input is copyrighted. If there’s any bootlegging going on it’s Anthropic that’s doing the bootlegging but having mirrored the video etc sufficiently to beat copyright law.
>Bootlegging is copyright theft. Ok, but what about those shady sites that resell Windows education keys? They're certainly a "better experience" than buying legit keys, by virtue of being significantly cheaper. You aren't even really committing copyright infringement in the process, because Microsoft gives out windows isos for free, and the seller is really selling a random 25 character string, which can hardly be c…
> Ok, but what about those shady sites that resell Windows education keys?
Yes, they are fine? They might no longer include full first party support by Microsoft for not being "new". Same as buying a used car (also comes with the "shady sites" for a far longer time).
Though this not making any difference by Microsoft not doing any support either way to make more money is a business decision by Microsoft.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#383Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…
Those resellers are simply just selling Kimi K2.5 or GLM5.1 as counterfeit Opus. We, Chinese, know how to play the counterfeit game for a long time in so many industry.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#384Someone should setup a plugin or something for Claude Code that makes it easy to log all inputs and outputs for people who are willing and interested in sharing their usage. I don't want Anthropic to be the only company that can train on my usage, I want to share my usage so it can be used for training all new models. Once you have a system for collecting all logs, you just need a place where they can be submitted. I…
Yikes, no thank you
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Information wants to be free" Anthropic profited from training its models on all kinds of copyrighted information, live by the sword, die by the sword... Their model weights, training data, training methods, etc are all going to leak to China over time. Nobody on a site named _Hacker_ news should be all that upset about this.
You’re mistaking the original term hacker, a tinkerer of systems, for the black hat variety.
What true hackers really did was discuss the definition of the word and how to use it
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#386There's two basic kinds of distillation: 1) the massive [and dumb] method where you ask a question and use the answer as reinforcement (Black Box), and 2) more targeted distillation where you use one model to directly inform/train/guide another model (RLAIF). The latter is basically fine-tuning the model with direction from another model. Thousands of businesses do this every day to fine-tune. This is almost certainl…
I've used RLAIF to build out heuristic based non-LLM models for various decision systems and achieved like, 95% F1 on certain projects. We're in a place where models can be used to fine tune a lot of stuff via loops.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#387Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…
Great point, and this is on the vendor (Anthropic) to address. Typical fraud issue.
OP is about modeling distilling the capabilities.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#388>The strike by Alibaba is described as a "distillation" effort, which Anthropic has said involves training a less capable model on the outputs of a stronger one. Claude used TB of content without permission to train their model and it was ok for them. Now someone else uses the output of a Claude model to train model and they cry foul.
It was not okay for them, they had to pay one billion dollars.
That’s a pittance compared to their revenue.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814
Bootlegging is copyright theft. Is Claude output copyrighted? If anything, a tremendous amount of Claude’s input is copyrighted. If there’s any bootlegging going on it’s Anthropic that’s doing the bootlegging but having mirrored the video etc sufficiently to beat copyright law.
I think renting out ID to let others in without telling the admin is generally unlawful in many places
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#390This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?
It never did. In debt the first 5000 years Geaeber makes the case that pure “free market” trade has never really existed in “the west”. The closest to this ideal that’s ever happened was during the Islamic golden age enabled by religious prescriptions against usury.
You can read Adam Smith if you're looking for definitions, there's no need to read charlatans.