Did Alibaba procure tons of stuff from Anthropic without paying, and use it to train a model?
I don't see the issue. Didn't Anthropic train on our data, which it acquired illegally?
Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
261–270 of 1001 posts
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814
"Information wants to be free" Anthropic profited from training its models on all kinds of copyrighted information, live by the sword, die by the sword... Their model weights, training data, training methods, etc are all going to leak to China over time. Nobody on a site named _Hacker_ news should be all that upset about this.
You’re mistaking the original term hacker, a tinkerer of systems, for the black hat variety.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#263This is a bit ironic, Anthropic complaining about a competitor using claude data to build its own product when Anthropic basically used all of human knowledge production to build claude, i don't think they paid every magazine, author, journalist, etc ... This is almost standard practice in any competitive industry anyways. Disassemble your competitor's product, study it and try to reproduce / improve.
Ironically, it's likely that the only reason USG let them get away with this — instead of making obvious and necessary adjustments to copyright law — was so that the industry would remain competitive with China.
Given that the most recent time Anthropic attempted regulatory capture, the US government responded by saying "alright, we agree that Mythos is too dangerous to release, so we've banned you from releasing Mythos," I can't wait to see what the outcome of this next push is.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#264Has anyone else noticed that Deepseek v4 running in Claude Code will try to read, list, tail as many files/logs/... as it can for even the most simple tasks?
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#265This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?
>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814
I bet you've downloaded a car.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess you missed the fraud part.
>Fraud According to which lawyer caste? Are American laws absolute truth? If not, who cares?
I mean, which lawyer caste do you respect? Is that one is cool with stealing credit cards to buy Claude subscriptions?
> 3. At an Italian airport: Constantly stealing bags, opening them to pick out MacBooks and credit cards, a credit card manufacturer-who sells stolen "black" credit card info to transfer stations— is racking his brains to save you money.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the idea that the Chinese are better at selling US models than the Americans is hilarious This is not the right deduction. China blocks foreign AI from operating there.
I think you will find that it's the USA government imposing such restrictions.
That is ALSO happening, but that's beside the point.
Chinese AI apps like DeepSeek are freely available for ordinary Americans to download and use. There's no federal law banning private citizens from using them.
So to claim that Chinese companies are better at selling American companies' work than the American companies can do themselves when they are prohibited from operating in that market, is the wrong deduction to make.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#268This is a bit ironic, Anthropic complaining about a competitor using claude data to build its own product when Anthropic basically used all of human knowledge production to build claude, i don't think they paid every magazine, author, journalist, etc ... This is almost standard practice in any competitive industry anyways. Disassemble your competitor's product, study it and try to reproduce / improve.
Anthropic did pay $1.5B to authors. But yes, it would be much better if they paid everyone on the internet dividends from every Claude chat. Or released Claude as an open model. In practice, the former isn't very realistic, while the latter is politically dead as this is becoming a national security issue.
Anthropic was forced to pay some people they stole content from, there was no attempt at getting permission ahead of time.
And paying basically everyone online is more or less a solved problem, it's what ad agencies have to do every day.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814
"Information wants to be free" Anthropic profited from training its models on all kinds of copyrighted information, live by the sword, die by the sword... Their model weights, training data, training methods, etc are all going to leak to China over time. Nobody on a site named _Hacker_ news should be all that upset about this.
[deleted]
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup, it's hard to take seriously any complaint about "stealing" Anthropic's services, when their entire business is based on massive theft.
You should. Companies like this will inevitably try and pull the ladder up behind them.
You mean Anthropic and OpenAI, right?