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Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

reuters.com

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Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#231

Post by someguyornotidk »

amatheus wrote: post #201
borolaj wrote: post #200

The under-18 population in the Gaza strip is roughly 47% (according to PCBS). So if deaths fell randomly across the population, children would be ~47% of the dead. They are ~30%. Also the numbers pipeline again runs through Hamas and there is the fact that the UN Council has passed more condemnatory resolutions on Israel than on any other single state (more than Syria, Myanmar, Yemen etc). I am surprised I don't see…

Deaths should not fall randomly across the population unless you’re committing war crimes.

This is common sense. It's astonishing that this needs to be explicitly stated on a site like this.

That's not to say that 30% isn't a crime against humanity. About 1.5 million children were murdered during the Holocaust (1.5M of 6M+ deaths). Israel murders more children than adults when compared to the Nazis.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#232

Post by spwa4 »

daft_pink wrote: post #87
spwa4 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it? Because this was also always the argument for the "League of Nations" that came before it. If you read 1930s newspapers that's what they give as a reason for the organization's existence ... Now after WW2, consensus is that the League of Nations may have outright caused WW2, and certainly contributed more than any other individual factor. The League of Nations was the embodiment of the treaty of Versailles. A…

It did because world war 3 hasn’t happened and it’s been about 80 years vs the short time between world war 2 and world war 1.

I'll just ask the forbidden question: and did WW3 not happen because of the UN ... or because of MAD?

(VERY importantly, combined with a fundamental agreement on the value of human life, at least to some extent, between the 2 dominant powers Russia and the US and now China)

Not saying that a meeting room where nuclear powers have permanent presence isn't useful. But to say it is responsible for peace somehow is just crazy.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#233

Post by throw358643 »

n4r9 wrote: post #226
pvaldes wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a single country in the world opened its doors to Jewish refugees during the Holocaust. Not one except USA. And Sweden, Dominican Republic, Denmark, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Poland, Bolivia, Spain, the Soviets and all the other countries that allowed safe crossing. Even Italy hid Jews... so what history books do you studied?.

And the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_refugees_from_German-oc...

[dead]

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#234

Post by throw358643 »

pvaldes wrote: post #136
throw358643 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your link: “From 2015 through 2024, the UN General Assembly has adopted 173 resolutions against Israel and 80 against other countries.” Do you seriously think that throughout this time Israel has been that much worse than all other countries? There are many other indications that the UN is biased about Israel: Only one country has its own permanent agenda Item 7 in the UN. Palestinian refugees have their own org…

> Not a single country in the world opened its doors to Jewish refugees during the Holocaust. Not one except USA. And Sweden, Dominican Republic, Denmark, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Poland, Bolivia, Spain, the Soviets and all the other countries that allowed safe crossing. Even Italy hid Jews... so what history books do you studied?.

[dead]

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#235

Post by n4r9 »

jameshilliard wrote: post #219
throw310822 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically what russians are trying in Ukraine. Not sure it's the same thing. Russians want political and territorial control in Ukraine, not expelling Ukrainians to resettle the place with "ethnic Russians". Israel wants to conquer the whole of Palestine (West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem) to replace the native population with its own. There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewi…

> There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewish state, not in a thousand years, and by design. About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab so Palestinian integration into a state with a Jewish majority can work to a degree. The issue is that if the demographics were flipped it would be unlikely to work(i.e. basically all of Jewish history in Muslim majority countries).

This webpage has a pretty good rundown on the status of Arab Israelis: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citiz...

An example of implicit discrimination is Israel's ban on family unification with Palestinian spouses: https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#236

Post by borolaj »

amatheus wrote: post #201
borolaj wrote: post #200

The under-18 population in the Gaza strip is roughly 47% (according to PCBS). So if deaths fell randomly across the population, children would be ~47% of the dead. They are ~30%. Also the numbers pipeline again runs through Hamas and there is the fact that the UN Council has passed more condemnatory resolutions on Israel than on any other single state (more than Syria, Myanmar, Yemen etc). I am surprised I don't see…

Deaths should not fall randomly across the population unless you’re committing war crimes.

I agree, however the claim is not war crimes, its genocide. People think that using genocide to simply mean lots of killing and destruction and war makes them morally superior, but genocide entails "intent" and we need a vocabulary to differentiate between the two.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#237

Post by n4r9 »

KevinMS wrote: post #141
n4r9 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I condemn the terrorist that stands behind a hostage; I condemn the sniper that takes the shot anyway.

what if the terrorist is repeatedly launching rockets?

Arguably, incidental civilian deaths are morally permissible if they constitute the only effective way to achieve reasonable military objectives. In this specific case, the objective is something like "disable Hamas' capacity to attack Israel". It's dubious whether this is achievable with the methods Israel has used so far. By most accounts Hamas is just as large as ever, is reasserting control over Gaza, and is likely to be rebuilding its stockpile.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#238

Post by throw3784377 »

n4r9 wrote: post #235
jameshilliard wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewish state, not in a thousand years, and by design. About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab so Palestinian integration into a state with a Jewish majority can work to a degree. The issue is that if the demographics were flipped it would be unlikely to work(i.e. basically all of Jewish history in Muslim majority countries).

This webpage has a pretty good rundown on the status of Arab Israelis: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citiz... An example of implicit discrimination is Israel's ban on family unification with Palestinian spouses: https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511

Now do Jews in Muslim countries. Or in areas under control of the PA.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#239

Post by n4r9 »

throw3784377 wrote: post #238
n4r9 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This webpage has a pretty good rundown on the status of Arab Israelis: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citiz... An example of implicit discrimination is Israel's ban on family unification with Palestinian spouses: https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511

Now do Jews in Muslim countries. Or in areas under control of the PA.

Imagine you're a parent explaining to a kid why it's not right to punch other kids. Do you accept "but they punch other kids too" as an excuse?

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#240

Post by throw3784377 »

n4r9 wrote: post #235
jameshilliard wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewish state, not in a thousand years, and by design. About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab so Palestinian integration into a state with a Jewish majority can work to a degree. The issue is that if the demographics were flipped it would be unlikely to work(i.e. basically all of Jewish history in Muslim majority countries).

This webpage has a pretty good rundown on the status of Arab Israelis: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citiz... An example of implicit discrimination is Israel's ban on family unification with Palestinian spouses: https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511

The linked article is also blaming socioeconomic differences on Israel. But by many metrics Israeli Arabs are doing better than Arabs in other Arab countries. E.g. life expectancy for Israeli Arabs is higher than the Arab average, and higher than Jordan or Egypt.

Similarly for income. While Israeli Arabs on average earn 65% that of Jewish Israelis at $2,400 vs $3,750, the average income in Jordan is $865, and Egypt $235.

But differences in socioeconomic status between groups exist in every country.

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