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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#341

Post by adrianN »

radishingr wrote: post #317
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suggest to keep buildings livable during the decades that it takes to (as you suggest) essentially rebuild cities?

By switching from burning Russian hydrocarbons for heat to heat pumps so you can heat and cool while being more efficient? This isn't a rebuild, it is a moderate adaptation to the actual requirements to live in the Europe of today. For steam based heat systems there is also cooling options, so that is a fix for those cities with central heat service.

Cooling buildings with air-water heat pumps like you would use to replace an oil or gas furnace doesn't work very well.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#342

Post by kharak »

pyridines wrote: post #314
crote wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just need to let people use AC properly (..) every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially. Yes, exactly: install AC where it truly helps and where it is truly needed. That's the point I was trying to make. Most of the rest is solved far more efficient by things like installing shades. In other words: don't go all-out on giant whole-home AC without…

> no need to tear them down after a couple of decades Where are people constructing buildings that need to be torn down after a couple decades? This is a refrain I've heard about construction (in the US?) several times in discussions like these, and I find it very puzzling.

I believe Japan does it, for instance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Japan

"An unusual feature of Japanese housing is that houses are presumed to have a limited lifespan, and are often torn down and rebuilt after a few decades,..."

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#343

Post by fancyfredbot »

msh wrote: post #223
thayne wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a bidirectional heat pump would be a good solution, since the same device can be used to heat the building when it's cold. And a lot of europe (including the mentioned UK and Greece) don't often get cold enough that a heat pump is inefficient.

The uk gets cold enough that a air to water heatpump is a better heating solution.

Air to water heat pumps are typically less efficient than air to air. Both will work in cold UK temperatures. However the water is often heated to a higher temperature which can reduce efficiency.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#344

Post by toasty228 »

lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

The irony is that if we never invented AC climate change wouldn't be as bad since half of the US, middle east and Asia would still be mostly unusable

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#345

Post by alexhans »

vanviegen wrote: post #321
alexhans wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in London and Dublin, what I've observed is that we get the following contradictory statements: - "We don't need AC, It's only hot a few times during the year." - "Oh what a terrible heat, global warming is getting worse every year." Pair to that the fact that in many places windows don't open all the way due to bureocratic regulations and many interior designs are very questionable in terms of air flow and yo…

Well yeah, it takes time to adjust to new circumstances. Especially since weather events don't come with any documentation saying things like "this will happen every two years now".

I'd argue that these temperatures are not a new thing. It's just a contradiction that is almost a tradition at this point, imho.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#346

Post by lwansbrough »

sph wrote: post #169
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

[flagged]

I realize you're aiming at Americans in general, but I'm Canadian. Most developed countries outside of Europe have AC readily available these days. The governance is a reflection of the people. Same can be said about the Americans.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#347

Post by toasty228 »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #210
thayne wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way AC works is by transferring heat from one place (inside) to somewhere else (outside), and it takes energy to do this which produces even more heat, which is generally in the outside part of the AC system. This isn't something you can engineer away either, it's a result of the second law of thermodynamics. Is that increase small compared to other things, like surfaces that absorb more solar radiation? Maybe. I…

The difference in ambient temperature due to air conditioning pumping heat outside is unmeasurably low. If all the power a city uses went to AC, it'd still be negligible compared with the sun irradiation on its surface.

1c to 2c according to simulation in Paris, even up to 3-4c for some streets

The exhaust of a single car/plane/ship are also immeasurable, yet here we are...

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#348

Post by mappu »

basisword wrote: post #140
jdkoeck wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the aircon is a heat pump, in which case it’s also useful in the winter, it’s more efficient and carbon neutral if your electricity grid is decarbonised. If most people can’t afford a heat pump, why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home, which doesn’t even work in the end? You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all…

I don't think you have any conception of how little money most people have. Why would I spend £15-20k I don't have on a heat pump so I can get 'free' air con when my house is already heated via another method? Most people don't have £500 spare for a portable air con unit. On top of that, until a few months ago, government subsidies for heat pumps didn't apply to the versions that include air con so anyone who did get…

Hold on - 15k GBP?

An ordinary heatpump for an ordinary house should cost something like 3000 NZD including labor for installation. What are we doing differently?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#349

Post by lwansbrough »

mschild wrote: post #269
CaptWorld wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not beating the allegations of Europoor mentality. I'm not from USA

Price, mostly, isn't the issue. Living in Germany, rental apartments simply don't have AC. Even luxury apartments that are 4k+ per month typically dont. Thats changing very slowly but still a long way to go. A lot of landlords simply don't give a shit as they're not required to install one and since there is a housing shortage, good luck convincing them of anything. Even if you own your apartment, installing a split…

You can buy a portable unit for like 300e and seal the window with a piece of plexiglass with a hole in it. It's a pretty low barrier.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#350

Post by ssl-3 »

vanviegen wrote: post #315
dranudin wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is, unfortunately. You cannot install AC, with an outside unit, without approval of your landlord. Lots of people are renting, e.g in Germany. Of course, one can get an indoor unit an seal the window. But it is heavy and takes up a lot of space in a small urban rental..

Are renters in the US specifically permitted by law to install airco units that require permanent modification to the property? Or are landlords mandated to install airco units on a renters request? Or..?

The US is a big place, and states are free to set their own rules, and those rules do vary.

I live in Ohio (USA), where a landlord isn't required to provide air conditioning. Some other parts of the US do require it. It's hard to pin down most things in the US using just one generalized statement.

Most of the rentals I've had did provide aircon, in some form, anyway.

For those that did not provide AC, I've just used window air conditioners. They're very annoying, but they work and they aren't usually absurdly expensive. Nobody ever said a word about me using them, nor any the screw holes that I may have left behind by mounting them securely.

I've lived in places that were operated by smaller landlords who I'm quite certain would have been tickled pink to have properly-installed permanent aircon installed -- as long as I asked first and they approved of my plan. But the expectation would have been that it would remain with the rental after I moved out and I'm not necessarily OK with spending that kind of money on a place that I don't intend to occupy for more than a year or three.

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