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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#311

Post by asdff »

sideway wrote: post #291
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

Nowadays, it's usually not the lack of aircons that is a problem in greek households. Compared to local wages, energy prices have risen so much that lots of people cannot afford to keep their aircons on.

How are public spaces in greece? Any large "free" sources of AC? Homeless in the US sometimes use this method to avoid severe heat exposure, hanging out in say a mall, public library, airport bag claim, staying underground in the subway system, or riding an air conditioned bus around.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#312

Post by HeyImAlex »

Aeolun wrote: post #284
TulliusCicero wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A basic window AC unit costs a few hundred bucks.

Not anywhere I’m aware of. Maybe the outer unit, then you need the inside, you need a licensed technician to install it, you need it to not look hideous and tank your house price. There is several thousand euros. You also need a larger unit because the rooms are too large to take one of the smaller units.

They're talking about window units, not heat pump systems or central air. It's a complete AC that sits in your window. It can't cool a very large space (even in apartments people may have more than one), but it's cheap and easy to install (and equally easy to remove). It might be unsightly on a house, but a lot of that is probably just cultural norms. They're very common in NYC, where a lot of housing was built before central air became the default.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#313

Post by PeterStuer »

crote wrote: post #243
ajmurmann wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually illegal in many places? I proposed this to my parents in Germany and they seemed to be under the impression that they could install one but their village is getting a village-wide heat pump system this fall that can also cool in summer, so they are just sitting this summer out as is.

I highly doubt there are many (if any) places with "installing any kind of AC is illegal" laws. On the other hand, there are plenty of noise-related laws preventing you from installing an AC loud enough to be a nuisance for your neighbors. But that's solved by getting one with proper sound isolation, or placing it in such a way that the noise doesn't travel to the neighboring properties. Similarly, you aren't allowed…

In plenty of rental accomodation you are not even allowed to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture from.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#314

Post by pyridines »

crote wrote: post #230
ianm218 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely ridiculous you just need to let people use AC properly and it will solve most of the problem with people dying. That doesn’t mean you need to go from place to place in AC or never be out of AC, but every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially. Another thing that would help is if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction so th…

> you just need to let people use AC properly (..) every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially. Yes, exactly: install AC where it truly helps and where it is truly needed. That's the point I was trying to make. Most of the rest is solved far more efficient by things like installing shades. In other words: don't go all-out on giant whole-home AC without…

> no need to tear them down after a couple of decades

Where are people constructing buildings that need to be torn down after a couple decades? This is a refrain I've heard about construction (in the US?) several times in discussions like these, and I find it very puzzling.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#315

Post by vanviegen »

dranudin wrote: post #252
rwmj wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry what? There's no reason that you can't install AC in your home/office in Europe, and many are doing so. It just hasn't been needed very much til recently.

There is, unfortunately. You cannot install AC, with an outside unit, without approval of your landlord. Lots of people are renting, e.g in Germany. Of course, one can get an indoor unit an seal the window. But it is heavy and takes up a lot of space in a small urban rental..

Are renters in the US specifically permitted by law to install airco units that require permanent modification to the property? Or are landlords mandated to install airco units on a renters request? Or..?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#316

Post by asdff »

Aeolun wrote: post #284
TulliusCicero wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A basic window AC unit costs a few hundred bucks.

Not anywhere I’m aware of. Maybe the outer unit, then you need the inside, you need a licensed technician to install it, you need it to not look hideous and tank your house price. There is several thousand euros. You also need a larger unit because the rooms are too large to take one of the smaller units.

I think you are thinking of mini splits, and not what americans would call a window unit. I got my window unit for $100 off craigslist and put it in myself without needing any tools.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#317

Post by radishingr »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #289
crote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment! Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly…

How do you suggest to keep buildings livable during the decades that it takes to (as you suggest) essentially rebuild cities?

By switching from burning Russian hydrocarbons for heat to heat pumps so you can heat and cool while being more efficient? This isn't a rebuild, it is a moderate adaptation to the actual requirements to live in the Europe of today.

For steam based heat systems there is also cooling options, so that is a fix for those cities with central heat service.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#318

Post by shoaloak »

jcranmer wrote: post #58
shitloadofbooks wrote: post #6

"Extreme Heat" seems to be 37-40 degrees Celsius which is bafflingly mundane to me as an Australian who grew up in rural New South Wales. We'd pack 30 kids and a teacher into an un-airconditioned classroom with just a ceiling fan and the windows open in that temperature. I imagine the buildings there just aren't built to support that heat plus the body height of hundreds or thousands of attendees?

People tend to rely on air temperatures when in reality the lethality of heat is probably more linked to the wet-bulb temperature. The human body has a natural resting temperature of about 37°C, and metabolism of course generates more heat constantly, so we constantly have to shed that heat. When the temperature is low, we can rely purely on conducting the heat into the atmosphere to shed the heat (which is probably…

This for sure. I notice quite a difference with 30 degrees in rural Portugal vs the Netherlands. You sweat a lot more due to the higher humidity.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#319

Post by asdff »

lrae wrote: post #78
Retr0id wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason it's very hard to find window units for sale in the UK, single-duct portables are the only thing available for cheap (although it's a fairly easy mod to convert one to dual-duct).

Probably because the UK - similar to most of Europe - does not use the US vertically sliding sash window type, does it? The typical "walmart window AC" does just not really exist in (most of) Europe, because the windows for it don't exist, afaik. Edit: Turns out, sash windows are more commonly found in the UK (compared to other European countries), but still not as common as in the US. So, UK = not as hot (so far), t…

I have a skinny tall window unit. It is called a casement unit. Pretty small market though at least in the US, only a few makes and models in comparison to the plethora of traditionally sized window units.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#320

Post by asdff »

ajmurmann wrote: post #251
nemomarx wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are the windows different, actually? They don't seem to be smaller overall, just skinnier and taller? But you should still be able to get two tubes fitted into any kind of window with the right seals. If you were really up for renovations you could get closeable exhaust holes punched through your brick or something maybe.

Living in the US I honestly miss the German windows that swing open. You can open the entire window whereas sliding windows can only ever open halfway. I also sometimes miss being able to stick my head out the window but that's a tradeoff about screens and in the end of the day I prefer not to have to worry about bugs.

I have a swing out window in the US. Fun cranking the lever.
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