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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#261

Post by gsquaredxc »

thayne wrote: post #235
PowerElectronix wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference in ambient temperature due to air conditioning pumping heat outside is unmeasurably low. If all the power a city uses went to AC, it'd still be negligible compared with the sun irradiation on its surface.

Over the scale of an entire city, it might be negligable, I don't know, I haven't done the math. My guess would be it is measurable, but not a lot, probably less than a degree. But the GP said "no it doesn't" increase heat. I'm just saying that even if it is a very small amount, it does increase heat. And if you stand near an AC unit, you can definitely feel heat coming from it.

You can reason it out (in a way that might make Fermi proud) pretty easily: a very large AC unit can be powered by a very small (relative) solar panel, where the solar panel is maybe 20% efficient. Thus, solar irradiation is substantially higher than AC power usage.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#262

Post by physicsguy »

ajmurmann wrote: post #239
crote wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the population graph of a city like Las Vegas. It basically didn't exist before the invention of AC. Window units don't work in most of Europe because our windows aren't compatible with them. If they were, I would have one . And again, it doesn't solve the core cause. If you want to cool down your home, your first step should be to stop heat from entering . If you can get the same result from €900 of shades a…

I was under the same impression about window units till recently as well. However, I learned that there are units with hoses and foam seals that just require to put the window on tilt and then the hose goes out at the top and the surrounding area is sealed with the foam. Not as good as a minisplit but it works and is DIY.

This might sound ridiculous to you but in the U.K. we generally don’t have tilting windows. They are really common in Germany though.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#263

Post by traxler »

lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

Genuine question: Do we have data that collaborates the theory that AC's prevent heat deaths and it's not due to confounding variables like the air in Nevada being dryer (dry heat is more bearable than wet heat) or the people in Nevada having year round higher temperatures and just being more acclimated?

Has been on my "to research" list for a while. I agree with you that Europeans should stop being so stingy with AC (speaking as an European who still hasn't an AC, but not much longer), but I do wonder how much they actually do to prevent heat deaths.

Because, how many heat deaths happen at home where people would potentially have AC? As far as I can tell (pre researching it) most, if not all, heat deaths I am aware of, happen outside. So the question would be: What is the effect of having a cool 22C home in regards to suffering heat deaths outside. Does it make it better, because your body can cool down? Does it maybe make it worse, because you step into a harsh difference when leaving it? (The last one is probably an easy no, since plenty of countries with high AC rate don't seem to have that issue).

(Or just general damages from heat, not just heat deaths)

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#264

Post by Levitz »

jdkoeck wrote: post #118
mylifeandtimes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on. And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc. "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.

That kind of thinking kills more people each year in Europe than guns do in the USA. Let that sink in.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. 80%+ of deaths because of heat in Europe are 65+ years old.

When you start handling that range you've to take into account that these people are going to die because of something, save a guy from heat here and that's an extra death because of cancer 4 years later.

Now I'm not saying it's a thing to be ignored, but be wary of playing quick and dirty with statistics.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#265

Post by ajmurmann »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #84
colechristensen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average temperature across the entire globe averaged over a year does not mean that each day is subject to the exact average added to it. Global warming intensifies differences in weather patterns. Hotter hots, colder colds, more intense storms, etc.

Seeing as it's so commonly misunderstood I wonder if "catastrophic climate variance" wouldn't have been a better term in hindsight.

I'm not sure a more complicated term would prevent people who don't want to understand the issue from finding new ways to not understand it.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#266

Post by oatmeal1 »

lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

Heat related deaths predominantly kill the elderly. That may save lives overall because of their voting behavior leading to more deaths.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#267

Post by Levitz »

miki123211 wrote: post #144
ericd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that hard to drill an 8cm hole to run some refrigerant pipes through the wall?

Yes! Most of Europe has a "registered building" system, where buildings above a certain age are considered historic. Renovating those buildings is an extremely difficult, expensive, and bureaucratic process. You generally need to preserve the period-appropriate look and materials. An AC unit sticking out of a wall won't pass muster. Even newer buildings are problematic. an acquaintance of mine lives in an upper-middl…

>Most of Europe has a "registered building" system, where buildings above a certain age are considered historic.

It feels weird to have to mention this, but although there are a lot of historical buildings in Europe, it's not the norm.

Population grows. There was a noteworthy war not that long ago. The vast majority of buildings are not that old.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#268

Post by ajmurmann »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #56
gonzo41 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a bit of a definitional skew happening here. The data isn't that good around this stuff. Heat as the primary factor, vs heat related deaths is significant. Heat is a system stressor. There's plenty of people having heart attacks and dying from weight related issues that probably got pushed over the edge by a hot day in Nevada that are missed in official stats.

I can't imagine this is significant unless there is a demonstrated reporting bias between the US and Europe. Otherwise I'd assume it's a wash

US numbers in the popular twitter stat are officially recoded heat deaths whereas EU numbers are all excess deaths. Supposedly if you look at excess deaths the numbers for both places look the same.

IMO even that's not a proper comparison though because you cannot compare Alaska to Texas, or Rome to Helsinki and thus throwing all of these in together for discussing heat deaths us just pure nonsense and rage bait.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#269

Post by mschild »

CaptWorld wrote: post #194
sph wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not beating the allegations of Europoor mentality. I'm not from USA

Price, mostly, isn't the issue.

Living in Germany, rental apartments simply don't have AC. Even luxury apartments that are 4k+ per month typically dont. Thats changing very slowly but still a long way to go.

A lot of landlords simply don't give a shit as they're not required to install one and since there is a housing shortage, good luck convincing them of anything.

Even if you own your apartment, installing a split AC requires unanimous approval from the other apartment owners before you can install one because making any permanent modifications to the outside of the building (like drilling a hole) needs their permission.

The older generation (generalising here) often has the opinion that the cold air from ACs is unhealthy and causes cold.

Once you get past all of that, is when price can become the issue. The AC units, even top-of-the-line, cost around 1k-1.8k. Good luck finding someone to install it for you. You need an electrician and a licenced installer.

I own my house so I dont need anyone's permission. The cheapest total cost (including the 1.2k for the unit I want) is 6k. Because apparently drilling 2 holes and, running the wire and coolant pipes is 4.8k.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#270

Post by Vasbarlog »

lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

Do you have any source for that? Most people in Greece have ACs on their homes and virtually all public buildings and private businesses do as well.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/07/15/these-eu-count...

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