Earlier quoted context omitted.
For some reason they seem allergic to AC - see the rest of this thread.
COST. People don’t have the money to spend installing aircon to save themselves from a couple of weeks of discomfort per year.
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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
111–120 of 505 posts
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#112Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.
I completely agree. Historically AC has not been necessary for the one to two days a year it was needed, but that world is gone now and the situation has changed and the widespread adoption of AC is now necessary. Its going to be a huge challenge because the buildings are not designed with that in mind, many buildings are hundreds of years old making these sorts of renovations notoriously difficult and expensive, but…
Is it that hard to drill an 8cm hole to run some refrigerant pipes through the wall?
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No it doesn't. Yes, it does. It may be small temperature increase but AC use increases outside temperatures. It is just physics. Here is a simple diagram: https://www.lozierheatingcooling.com/filesimages/heatPump.jp...
Give a chart with actual numbers on the increase in temperature versus the sun. Not a diagram from an elementary science textbook on how air conditioners work.
I’m not debating that the sun is stronger heating source. I’m just saying air-conditioning increases climate change because it uses fossil fuels and also the law of thermodynamics dictates that he will be created in this instance.
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#114Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.
Some buildings in Southern Europe have thick as hell walls which isolate from both heat and cold (the North can be really chilly near the Atlantic, and freezing away from the Mediterranean).
That's a misconception. They are poor insulators, but they moderate temperature well. If the temperature outside is cold but sunny, the walls absorb heat from the sun during the day and retain it during the night. However, when you require heat input (cloudy days, average temperature less than desired interior temperature), the stone conducts it very well to the outside and you need much more power input than even crappy US stick-built houses with R-15 insulation. It's just that Southern Europe's climate is usually so mild it doesn't seem like it's more comfortable, but this situation demonstrates its inferiority well.
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are the windows different, actually? They don't seem to be smaller overall, just skinnier and taller? But you should still be able to get two tubes fitted into any kind of window with the right seals. If you were really up for renovations you could get closeable exhaust holes punched through your brick or something maybe.
Sash windows are just not as common. Seems like they are in the UK somewhat, though numbers I found vary, but overall in Europe they're pretty uncommon. And yes, there are options for tubes/ducts for the more common window types. Like tilt-and-turn windows, horizontally sliding or all the other kinds of inward or outward opening windows - but most of them are the ducted portable units the original comment was speakin…
one issue with tilt and turn is getting window screens for them. It's possible but mostly they get installed on the inside if you have the proper wall spacing that allows window to function without interfering with the screen. mini splits are great but it's much more money than a simple window unit or portable unit.
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And it raises the heat outside of buildings. No it doesn't. Seriously, where does this meme even come from? It should be pretty obvious just from a solar insolation map that AC is just noise vs the sun. The energy usage is tiny vs vehicles or non-heat pump heating and only electric. What changes temperature overall is the balance of thermal retention by the atmosphere vs radiation into space, hence why net increase…
> No it doesn't. Yes, it does. It may be small temperature increase but AC use increases outside temperatures. It is just physics. Here is a simple diagram: https://www.lozierheatingcooling.com/filesimages/heatPump.jp...
It does on my balcony where the fan pumps to, which has made doing any gardening difficult, but to the overall outside temperature it's just a drop in the ocean.
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#117Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#118Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.
Air conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on. And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc. "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.
That kind of thinking kills more people each year in Europe than guns do in the USA. Let that sink in.
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#119Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.
Air conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on. And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc. "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.
> "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.
This is an outdated attitude. PV solar panel output correlates really well with air conditioning demand, no need for storage. Overcool your thick-walled masonry buildings during the day as a form of energy storage.
Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree Especially as air conditioning are heat pumps. Would have helped solve the large dependency on natural gas heating for free as a byproduct!
In the UK my understanding is there are large subsidies for installing heat pumps in new builds - but you lose the subsidy if you include the cooling part. NB: a friend in construction explained this to me so I could be wrong but it would explain why even pretty fancy new apartments with heat pumps have no cooling.
Same in France. The trick is to wait for a control visit, and then turn on the cooling.