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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#151

Post by Klayy »

ericd wrote: post #112
PaulKeeble wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. Historically AC has not been necessary for the one to two days a year it was needed, but that world is gone now and the situation has changed and the widespread adoption of AC is now necessary. Its going to be a huge challenge because the buildings are not designed with that in mind, many buildings are hundreds of years old making these sorts of renovations notoriously difficult and expensive, but…

Is it that hard to drill an 8cm hole to run some refrigerant pipes through the wall?

That's not the only thing required to properly install an ac unit. Do you genuinely believe people die rather that drill a hole? Lile that's the blocker? What a weird take

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#152

Post by MobiusHorizons »

AstroNutt wrote: post #89
mylifeandtimes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on. And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc. "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.

It's just a heat transfer. Refrigerant inside the evaporator picks up heat and transfers it to the condensing unit outside. They don't create heat. It was there in the first place, just a different location.

Yes heat pumps move heat that already existed from the cold side to the hot side, but they also consume some energy to fight entropy, meaning they pump more heat to the hot side than they remove from the cold side. This is a net heat gain, equivalent to the energy consumed in running the AC. The value may be considered negligible compared to other sources, but it can still be on the order of 500w per room, which adds up quickly if everyone is doing it.

Of course air conditioning is reasonably well suited to be a solar load during peak hours, but in most parts of the world if everyone just installed AC units like are common in many parts of the US it would mean a huge amount of extra fossil fuels burnt.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#153

Post by jdkoeck »

basisword wrote: post #140
jdkoeck wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the aircon is a heat pump, in which case it’s also useful in the winter, it’s more efficient and carbon neutral if your electricity grid is decarbonised. If most people can’t afford a heat pump, why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home, which doesn’t even work in the end? You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all…

I don't think you have any conception of how little money most people have. Why would I spend £15-20k I don't have on a heat pump so I can get 'free' air con when my house is already heated via another method? Most people don't have £500 spare for a portable air con unit. On top of that, until a few months ago, government subsidies for heat pumps didn't apply to the versions that include air con so anyone who did get…

Something needs to be done with the heat. The common euro talking point: aircon doesn’t solve the problem, let’s insulate instead (an order of magnitude more expensive). Apparently you entertain an even more absurd idea: let’s just do nothing, because everyone is too poor. That’s just wrong, plenty of home owners or real estate owners have the means to foot the bills, especially if regulation mandates or subsidises heat pumps.

Besides that, just know you’re participating in a system of belief that needlessly kills thousands each year (and many more to come, if you believe as I hope that climate change is real). Just dwell on it a little. Thousands dead because of ideological comfort and resistance to change, which in and of itself is a weird form of climate skepticism.

If you answer this, please address each of my points from both comments. You have adressed none so far.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#154

Post by oceanplexian »

dylanz wrote: post #80
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

I live in Las Vegas and one year at the start of summer my AC went out. It took a week to order the part needed and make the fix. I lived out of casinos for that week (using HotelTonight to get a different place each night) and it was pretty fun. I gained 10lbs. That said, AC's are a necessity out here.

I live a few hours outside Las Vegas and it's a lot more survivable than you would think given primitive technology and some knowledge.

I have one of those portable evaporative coolers and they don't need much power (50-100W). I have one and measured ~110F input and 78F on the output side using nothing more than water and a fan, pretty remarkable. The trick is staying out of direct sunlight, and the body can cool itself well with the same mechanism. Sweating is extremely effective due to the low humidity.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#155

Post by greenavocado »

_ihaque wrote: post #137
jackyinger wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure the sun is a proximal cause… But are you really going to tell me that you me that tho evidence that temperatures are getting warmer is bunk? For starters check out the top diagram here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change# Would you argue against the physics of greenhouse gases? https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-pinpoint-the-quant... Are you too young to have noticed climate changes over time in…

This is an uncharitable take on the original comment which literally said: > the fact this is how hot it will be from now on That sounds to me like an acknowledgement that, in fact, the climate has changed.

[flagged]

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#156

Post by colechristensen »

miki123211 wrote: post #148
fc417fc802 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as it's so commonly misunderstood I wonder if "catastrophic climate variance" wouldn't have been a better term in hindsight.

People don't know what variance is. Most people have an intuitive understanding of what an average is, but "distance from the average" is mystifying to them.

And if you're trying to sell the public on the numbers of what's concerning, those numbers should be able to communicate the changes they expect.

"This number is small but it means BAD THINGS" isn't a very good message

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#157

Post by ssl-3 »

jackyinger wrote: post #134
chmod775 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This effect is temporary. Otherwise one could run their AC once for a few minutes and then it'd be cold inside your home for the rest of the year until you turn up heating. In reality equilibrium is restored quickly (and the thermal mass we're cooling/heating here is insignificant anyhow).

That heat goes out into the world, it doesn’t just disappear

The house being cooled by aircon is within the same world as everything else is.

This doesn't mean that there's zero heat added locally (as many seem fond of suggesting): The compressors and circulation blowers and fans don't run for free, and every Joule of electricity they consume is ultimately converted to a Joule of heat in a process that wouldn't occur in the absence of aircon. That's not zero.

But in very broad strokes, it's not very significant. It's somewhat akin to running a refrigerator inside of a kitchen.

With aircon, the refrigerator is the size a whole house. That certainly sounds huge, and it is huge. But that refrigerated building is inside of a room that is the size of the Earth's atmosphere, which is very obviously vast in ways that kitchens simply are not.

It doesn't really matter. Millions of homes with aircon don't mean much when the atmosphere is millions of times bigger than they are.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#158

Post by trollbridge »

Aeolun wrote: post #45
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around. You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned…

I recently bought a window unit AC for $10 at a yard sale.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#159

Post by Klayy »

germandiago wrote: post #46
shitloadofbooks wrote: post #6

"Extreme Heat" seems to be 37-40 degrees Celsius which is bafflingly mundane to me as an Australian who grew up in rural New South Wales. We'd pack 30 kids and a teacher into an un-airconditioned classroom with just a ceiling fan and the windows open in that temperature. I imagine the buildings there just aren't built to support that heat plus the body height of hundreds or thousands of attendees?

[flagged]

I tolerate heat well, I feel very comfortable at 28C but I get cold easily. My sister is happy at 18C and starts overheating at 25C. Not everyone is the same.
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