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Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

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Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#31

Post by gbraad »

hcfman wrote: post #2

Never fear. We have the technology to help people live with wolves. https://wildlifesecurityinnovations.com/projects/wolves-belg... With the most wolf videos here. https://youtube.com/@hcftube1 We have a solar powered thermal local AI wolf detection system that’s been in a field in Belgium for more than 8 months now, monitoring the wolves there. Thermal image motion detection can detection them at much greater distan…

Cameras do not actively protect people or livestock, it just monitors and retroactively actions are taken. I prefer the German method where they make the wolves fear people.

https://youtu.be/hmVowVaWUms

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#32

Post by pocksuppet »

idiotsecant wrote: post #19
warumdarum wrote: post #16

No, because predators follow exponential curves leading to prey collapses during winters where hungry animals will abandon shyness to hunt for humans in suburbs.

I live in an extremely rural county. There are plenty of wolves here. None of them hunt for humans. Ever.

Wikipedia says wolves don't habitually attack humans but they will, and the more contact they have with humans, the more likely they are to attack them (they learn that humans are not wolf predators which makes them viable targets)

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#33

Post by pwthornton »

gbraad wrote: post #28

Yes and no. In Germany they have a county that at least helps to make the wolves fear people, by actively go after them with dogs, while in the Netherlands people are waiting for the first fatal victim before action will be taken, as currently the animal concerns outweigh those of people. For now, farmers have to pay the price; while they get a small compensation from most governments it will never offset the loss. S…

A healthy, non-rabid wolf killing a human is way less likely than being killed by a lightning strike.

Farmers are also heavily subsidized in Europe.

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#34

Post by gbraad »

refactor_master wrote: post #18

Some years ago people also said “Japanese bears are harmless, shy and fear humans” and now the country is experiencing a slowly approaching bear-pocalypse, with bear attacks occurring in densely populated suburbs. I don’t see how wolves in Europe would be uniquely different if it follows the same trajectory. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj41vn9q81ko

It is the ignorance or pleasing all attitude in the government that creates these situations. In the Netherlands they have a minority coalition, so they hand the other smaller parties whatever they want to get their vote. And what happens, they allow wolves to attack livestock and pets, as free-roaming wolves are more important than people... Until the day comes that it's not the dog that gets attacked, but a little boy or girl while walking the dog. They have already started to enter the borders of a few cities in the area where I am from in the Netherlands. Rightfully so, German shepherds have mentioned: "we thought the Dutch were smarter", as they allow this to happen without measures in place.

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#35

Post by gbraad »

pwthornton wrote: post #33
gbraad wrote: post #28

Yes and no. In Germany they have a county that at least helps to make the wolves fear people, by actively go after them with dogs, while in the Netherlands people are waiting for the first fatal victim before action will be taken, as currently the animal concerns outweigh those of people. For now, farmers have to pay the price; while they get a small compensation from most governments it will never offset the loss. S…

A healthy, non-rabid wolf killing a human is way less likely than being killed by a lightning strike. Farmers are also heavily subsidized in Europe.

Are you a farmer speaking out of experience? I can tell you from family that your perception is wrong.

This subsidizing is not a EU standard practice, and not for all sectors of agricultural development. This idea that subsidizing offsets the loss of livestock sounds weird to me, as is the risk of a human attack. Europe is far more densely populated than most other places that have to deal with bears, coyotes or so, plus... You are allowed to take precautions, that we are not; a spray might harm the animal.

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#36

Post by [deleted] »

gbraad wrote: post #35
pwthornton wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A healthy, non-rabid wolf killing a human is way less likely than being killed by a lightning strike. Farmers are also heavily subsidized in Europe.

Are you a farmer speaking out of experience? I can tell you from family that your perception is wrong. This subsidizing is not a EU standard practice, and not for all sectors of agricultural development. This idea that subsidizing offsets the loss of livestock sounds weird to me, as is the risk of a human attack. Europe is far more densely populated than most other places that have to deal with bears, coyotes or so,…

[deleted]

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#40

Post by gbraad »

morkalork wrote: post #22
refactor_master wrote: post #18

Some years ago people also said “Japanese bears are harmless, shy and fear humans” and now the country is experiencing a slowly approaching bear-pocalypse, with bear attacks occurring in densely populated suburbs. I don’t see how wolves in Europe would be uniquely different if it follows the same trajectory. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj41vn9q81ko

And in Canada we've been having a moment with wolves littler cousin: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/child-bit-coyote-whit... https://ottawacitizen.com/news/orleans-park-closed-coyote-at...

Are you allowed to take precautionary actions, like a weapon or spray? As in Europe that is not even considered/disallowed for the safety of the animal.
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