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Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

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Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#21

Post by idiotsecant »

danielvf wrote: post #14
the_real_cher wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like zero documented death by wolves in the entirety of the 20th century in the contiguous North America.

1. Wolves were basically exterminated in the continental US for most of the 20th century 2. There were still deaths from wolf attacks in North America during that time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_...

What are you talking about? There's tons of wolves in my county. They aren't 'basically exterminated' at all. And there's zero human attacks. Lots and lots of cow attacks though.

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#22

Post by morkalork »

refactor_master wrote: post #18

Some years ago people also said “Japanese bears are harmless, shy and fear humans” and now the country is experiencing a slowly approaching bear-pocalypse, with bear attacks occurring in densely populated suburbs. I don’t see how wolves in Europe would be uniquely different if it follows the same trajectory. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj41vn9q81ko

And in Canada we've been having a moment with wolves littler cousin:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/child-bit-coyote-whit...

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/orleans-park-closed-coyote-at...

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#23

Post by peterashford »

the_real_cher wrote: post #13
RetroTechie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are wolves even a threat? Outside of movies theyre pretty harmless. Are you kidding? Humans often had a fear of wolves throughout history. And rightfully so. But the reverse is also true. Hence wolves tend to stay away from people so encounters are rare. But where not, human-wolf close encounters can end deadly sometimes. Even for the humans (especially children).

Looks like zero documented death by wolves in the entirety of the 20th century in the contiguous North America.

Wikipedia suggests hundreds of deaths in various regions around the world - more common in the past, which suggests, I think, more wolves = more deaths.

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#24

Post by stephenhuey »

idiotsecant wrote: post #21
danielvf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Wolves were basically exterminated in the continental US for most of the 20th century 2. There were still deaths from wolf attacks in North America during that time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_...

What are you talking about? There's tons of wolves in my county. They aren't 'basically exterminated' at all. And there's zero human attacks. Lots and lots of cow attacks though.

Yellowstone park rangers killed the last wolves there in 1926, and by the middle of the 20th century, the total population in the Lower 48 had been reduced to a few hundred in Minnesota and Michigan.

https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/historyculture/wolf-managemen...

This map shows how now there are nearly 7,000 in the contiguous states of the USA:

https://nywolf.org/learn/u-s-wolf-populations/

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#25

Post by focusgroup0 »

refactor_master wrote: post #18

Some years ago people also said “Japanese bears are harmless, shy and fear humans” and now the country is experiencing a slowly approaching bear-pocalypse, with bear attacks occurring in densely populated suburbs. I don’t see how wolves in Europe would be uniquely different if it follows the same trajectory. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj41vn9q81ko

[dead]

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#26

Post by dvt »

hcfman wrote: post #5
Stevvo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a glorified trail camera, really does very little to help people live with wolves. What does is a strict hunting quota; the government decides how many wolves there should be, rather than nature.

There's the killing again. And no, it's not a glorified trail camera. Very different. Everyone wants to kill before trying measures to keep people and their animals apart. I don't think you can say it does nothing to help people live with wolves because it's not being tried. It's not being tried, because people being convince the only thing that helps is killing everything that requires a bit of effort to live with.…

> There's the killing again.

Do you not understand how ecosystems work? Or how populations of predator/prey are in various (usually) oscillatory states?

> Humans have already stolen so much from nature and the animals

I'm confused, are you saying humans are somehow not part of nature?

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#28

Post by gbraad »

Yes and no. In Germany they have a county that at least helps to make the wolves fear people, by actively go after them with dogs, while in the Netherlands people are waiting for the first fatal victim before action will be taken, as currently the animal concerns outweigh those of people. For now, farmers have to pay the price; while they get a small compensation from most governments it will never offset the loss. So yeah, this is a heated topic.

Note: https://youtu.be/hmVowVaWUms about the German shepherd (in Dutch, but CC can help to understand). Just search on YouTube for Wolf Germany or Europe. And yes, the place I am from these wolves have started to enter urban areas (Veluwe).

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#29

Post by FpUser »

morkalork wrote: post #22
refactor_master wrote: post #18

Some years ago people also said “Japanese bears are harmless, shy and fear humans” and now the country is experiencing a slowly approaching bear-pocalypse, with bear attacks occurring in densely populated suburbs. I don’t see how wolves in Europe would be uniquely different if it follows the same trajectory. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj41vn9q81ko

And in Canada we've been having a moment with wolves littler cousin: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/child-bit-coyote-whit... https://ottawacitizen.com/news/orleans-park-closed-coyote-at...

I see those nearly daily. some of those are not that little. They've killed dogs and attacked humans. Government as usual does not give a flying fuck. Well I am pretty sure if one of them or their relative gets killed they would instantly declare a war against coyotes.

Re: Wolves are reconquering Europe. Can people learn to live with them?

#30

Post by pocksuppet »

gonzalohm wrote: post #9
hcfman wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the killing again. And no, it's not a glorified trail camera. Very different. Everyone wants to kill before trying measures to keep people and their animals apart. I don't think you can say it does nothing to help people live with wolves because it's not being tried. It's not being tried, because people being convince the only thing that helps is killing everything that requires a bit of effort to live with.…

A lot of people are like that when dealing with nature. Oh I don't want squirrels in my backyard, let me put some poison... We really don't deserve a place on this planet

That's a fine attitude for squirrels which are ultimately harmless, but wolves can attack people, although that's somewhat rare, not like bears which attack you every time.

Wikipedia says wolves are more likely to attack humans if they've been living around humans for a while - they learn that humans are viable prey, not that humans are harmless.

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