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California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

the3dprintingnerd.com

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Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#111

Post by arjie »

mc32 wrote: post #96
arjie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, from the point of view of Californian politicians, was it their anti-balance-billing AB72 that was over-regulation before No Surprises Act? Or the CCPA? Or the Auto-Renewal Law? And looking back even farther: was it CalOPPA that was overreach requiring privacy policies? Paid family leave and sick leave? Some made life hard for Californians like the CARB gasoline blend requirement but I think if you proposed rem…

They have passed decent laws like the privacy law although my preference would be a nation-wide law for this to benefit all Americans. That said these politicians have pushed: The ban on disinfectant soaps Stop Shirley bill (charge you for public records in order to suppress access to public information) Effort to sideline charter schools by teachers unions Reduced sentences for murderers (this isn't unarmed robbery,…

It seems overall that they're pretty much just on the frontier of laws that would be considered progressive - increase taxes, consumer protection, control corporations, prison reduction. I think those positions are overall popular. It just seems like you disagree with them. I also prefer many of these rules not be in place but where you like CCPA and hate the road tax, I like the road tax. Overall, the positions seem pretty coherently in-line with the politics viewpoints.

So, I suppose the answer to your original question is: they're slowly grinding forward on a progressive-politics agenda in a public and straightforward manner that's generally popular among the electorate.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#112

Post by bluescrn »

monax wrote: post #11

Next they will ban hardware store ? Because you could make a weapon with that pipe

They'll also have to ban motors and microcontrollers. As they can be used to build 3D printers and drones.

Maybe they'll ban Github, too - as it hosts unregulated open source software that can power these scary tools.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#114

Post by trhway »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #81
trhway wrote: post #22

As the latest affair shown, US is falling behind in drone tech. Now another key modern tech is going to be similarly outlawed. Note that in particular banning of 3d printing severely decreases chances for bringing back manufacturing - high labor and other costs makes domestic manufacturing feasible only when it is highly automated and highly customizable.

> As the latest affair shown, US is falling behind in drone tech. Now another key modern tech is going to be similarly outlawed. My bet is the US militaro-industrial complex is busy preparing juicy contracts to sell shitload of drones and drones-related tech to the US government now that they understood that drones in warfare were a thing (Ukraine vs Russia showed it and Iran-vs-the-world showed it too). The US has s…

> a country that has never invented anything … managed to fly a few low-tech drones into US military assets

And de-facto won the war as a result. That is reality. That is the power of that weaponry, and that is the falling behind. And that after 4 years of such a war in Ukraine.

I agree it is very possible that US would be at some point able to build up those capabilities. Though, limited to established players, it most probably would be very expensive and thus go against the key feature - cheapness - which in itself allows for the other key feature- mass scale of the drone weapons.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#115

Post by whartung »

int32_64 wrote: post #74

Are 3D-printed guns even remotely reliable, or is it just a moral panic? A brass tube and a pin is probably less likely to fail than 3d printed materials.

They’re not printing the metal parts. They’re printing the frame (as in “polymer framed handgun”).

The frame is the part that gets the serial number and is considered the controlled part of the gun. Rather than the trigger, the springs, the barrel, etc.

Other than the frame, which requires an FFL for transfer, especially across state lines, the rest of the parts can be ordered and shipped from anywhere and are not controlled.

Mind, that’s changing, again notably in CA, as they now talk about “gun pre-cursor” parts.

The 3D printed frames are similar to the “80% lowers” which are aluminum blocks that are “80%” complete AR-15 lowers (the lower receiver, again, the controlled part of an AR-15).

With straight forward machining and some jigs, those chunks of metal can be finished into an operational lower receiver, and the rest of the rifle can be assembled from disparate parts ordered from anywhere.

The original “ghost gun” before 3D printers enabled folks to assemble Glocks in their garage.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#116

Post by waffletower »

whalesalad wrote: post #46
dgellow wrote: post #6

If that becomes current law I don’t want to ever hear about Europe being over-regulated compared to the US…

california is the europe of the united states, for better or for worse.

Describing California as "the Europe of the United States" ignores its essential narcissism -- defining California in terms of Europe would be met with contemptuous pashaws, even if the balkanized ethnic enclaves found there, at a scale larger than anywhere in the U.S. -- not even New York, resemble Europe. The Asian communities will also wonder if you can find Vietnam on a map -- would guess you think it is in the Mediterranean.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#117

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

alright2565 wrote: post #70
guelo wrote: post #23

Photocopiers and printers have included anti-counterfeiting tech for decades, so there is precedent for this kind of thing. And this is addressing a real growing problem: https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/santa-rosa-167-gun... https://da.santaclaracounty.gov/da-task-force-seizes-ghost-g... https://www.vvng.com/3d-printed-firearm-recovered-after-man-...

Here's a series of models, which of these is a gun part? https://imgur.com/a/p3UtJqW Money anti-counterfeiting is trivial, it's just 5 dots arranged in a specific pattern. Deciding what is a gun part is impossible, even for an expert human.

I just fundamentally don't understand the idea that nobody's allowed to restrict firearms manufacturing unless they can solve complex riddles about the nature of parts. I understand that you perceive this to be a deep and interesting point, but to me it seems enragingly obtuse. Let's start with blacklisting DefCAD and iterate from there, what's wrong with that?

Like, it's true that refrigerators don't maintain a completely uniform temperature, meaning there's some philosophical wiggle room in what it means for a health department to say that raw meat must be stored at 41F. But it would be absurd for a meatpacker to declare that this means food safety is "impossible", and outrageous for them to conclude that they're just not going to bother refrigerating their meat at all.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#118

Post by vlian2088 »

function_seven wrote: post #90
vlian2088 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seriously questioning the absurdity of banning something that remains available a 15-minute drive away, behind a purely informal border. I don't think, for example, that recent abortion bans had reduced the number of abortions in their respective states to zero.

1) For the vast majority of Californians, the nearest state border is 3-5 hours away. 2) those abortion bans have definitely reduced the number of abortions. Not zero, but that's a silly goal for any ban. Obviously the law is stupid. But states passing their own regulations isn't on its face.

>those abortion bans have definitely reduced the number of abortions. Not zero, but that's a silly goal for any ban.

really? what percentage of Americans can't afford a bus ticket to the nearest city in an adjacent state?

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#120

Post by bluescrn »

mvdtnz wrote: post #49
guelo wrote: post #23

Photocopiers and printers have included anti-counterfeiting tech for decades, so there is precedent for this kind of thing. And this is addressing a real growing problem: https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/santa-rosa-167-gun... https://da.santaclaracounty.gov/da-task-force-seizes-ghost-g... https://www.vvng.com/3d-printed-firearm-recovered-after-man-...

Until America bans actual guns I don't want to hear about the "growing problem" of 3D printed guns.

Yeah, if it was the UK cracking down it'd make more sense, but IIRC the US already has more guns than people.

And in places where guns are tightly regulated, most people couldn't get hold of ammo even if they did build a printed gun, so it's not a big problem. (And the bad guys just use kitchen knives)

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