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Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

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Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#91

Post by tlogan »

poisonborz wrote: post #53
freediddy wrote: post #23

How does digital euro replace credit cards? That's basically the same as direct debit. It doesn't address the reason why I use credit cards. I use credit cards as a proxy for my bank accounts. I know that my issuing bank will protect me from all fraud so I don't have to worry about losing money if I buy something from a fraudulent merchant. I also know I can do things like chargebacks if I have to. None of this is ad…

In EU most people use direct debit. The term "credit card" is almost synonymous with debit. Chargebacks theoretically exists but they are more complicated, I don't know anyone who ever did that.

Yes, but the EU is quite diverse.

I have some Irish friends. And Ireland seems similar to the US when it comes to credit card usage (vs debit). I assume that is because Ireland is heavily influenced by US and UK banking habits. On other hand, Germans only use debit cards.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#92

Post by [deleted] »

nemomarx wrote: post #9
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #6

I hope that they don't fall into the same trap that a lot of EU projects fall in to: only solving one problem. My VISA card is not only a convenient payment method, it also forces ATM operators to give me cash without any extra fees. In Germany the EC card used to be THE way of paying with a card but you had to go to the ATMs of your bank, otherwise there would be sometimes pretty ridiculous fees. The kicker was that…

What does your visa card do to force them to not charge fees? I still see atm fees over here in the us, so it can't just be being visa. I would guess some regulation but you could get that applied to the digital euro too probably?

[deleted]

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#93

Post by blenklo »

Dries007 wrote: post #71
blenklo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is very good, most of the time. Besides this GDPR Website thing, usb-c is great, energy standards are great, etc.

GDPR could have been great, if it was actually enforced in the way it was intended. Cookie banners and dark patterns are not actually allowed, but without enforcement, it's basically meaningless. IMO the biggest issue is that the member states are individually required to set up agencies to police this. This makes perfect sense for local companies, but is meaningless against large entities that operate across the ent…

Large entities (companies right?) take that very serious. Its the other way around, small companies might not be aware of.

Nonetheless, i have seen in a very small company that we changed the behaviour of a camera which then only turned on when the action expected it and not before.

And in a very big company you alway have to fullfill it as a product standard.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#94

Post by xdennis »

xxpor wrote: post #24
FooBarWidget wrote: post #7

??? Doesn't Europe already have Wero (iDEAL in Netherlands)? That's a system for making online payments. Money gets directly debited from your bank account. I've always found credit cards stupid. You just want to pay for something, and then suddenly you have a debt. You shouldn't be in debt when you can clearly pay with money you have. Credit card companies advertise with "super easy payments" and "buy now pay later"…

Europeans being so scared of debt is so funny. Just pay off your card every month. The liability model is completely different in the US from Europe w.r.t. merchant vs bank. The interchange fees are much much higher in the US, which is what pays for the rewards. Europe has an artificial cap.

> Europeans being so scared of debt is so funny.

I've never understood this mentality. It's like walking through a dangerous neighborhood knowing that you have excellent health insurance. If you get stabbed, you'll probably recover very well, but why take the risk?

I can understand going into debt to buy a house, but I can't understand going into debt to buy a can of tuna. Why take an unnecessary risk?

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#95

Post by __rito__ »

Can someone tell me why the EU doesn’t develop something like RuPay?

Indian UPI gets mentioned a lot, but when Visa, Mastercard didn't agree with data sovereignty rules among other rules, India quickly developed RuPay [0]. Now most debit cards in India are RuPay. CCs stand at 18% share.

They also integrate seamlessly to UPI.

Why doesn’t the EU consider something like that? They want to jump direct to digital currencies? Is that it? Something else?

[0]: Data rules came in 2017/18, RuPay was developed in 2012 iirc. But it got unprecedented push after the rule.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#96

Post by xdennis »

euio757 wrote: post #65
looperhacks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's primarily about being scared of debt, it's just a weird, unnecessary step in-between. I have a credit-card and even I don't understand why I should prefer it over my debit card

Setting weird rewards/cash back things aside, which is the main incentive for folks to use it over debit card in most places: It's not fully unnecessary step in-between when fraud is involved. If someone hacks you/deceives you and somehow they got $5000 from your debit card, then your bank account is $5000 smaller. That can impact your ability to pay rent, or whatever you needed those $5000 for. If it's via credit ca…

> If someone hacks you/deceives you and somehow they got $5000 from your debit card, then your bank account is $5000 smaller.

That's a myth. I had my debit card cloned and some money stolen. The bank gave my money back. Debit cards are protected too.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#97

Post by adrianmonk »

petcat wrote: post #31
yreg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mean reliance on US bank cards.

How does that make any sense? You're saying that 75% of Europeans use American bank accounts?

A bank card is a type of card. Credit cards and debit cards are both bank cards. Prepaid cards are another type.

With any type of bank card, there's a bank that guarantees to a merchant that they will later receive a payment. With a debit card, the guarantee is backed by money you have on deposit. With a credit card, it's backed by the bank's money, which is higher risk for the bank.

Two US companies, VISA and Mastercard, have big networks for processing transactions with bank cards. These networks act as intermediaries to connect merchants (who want to accept payments) and banks (who issue cards) together. It's much simpler for a merchant to send a request to (say) VISA than to figure out which bank issued each customer's card. The payment networks also define, publish, and enforce standards and rules for the payment process.

These networks aren't banks. But they are, in a sense, bank card companies because they are part of the bank card system.

So in other words, European consumers have an account at a European bank that issues them a card they can use for purchases at European businesses, but US networks connect it all together.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#98

Post by toomuchtodo »

__rito__ wrote: post #95

Can someone tell me why the EU doesn’t develop something like RuPay? Indian UPI gets mentioned a lot, but when Visa, Mastercard didn't agree with data sovereignty rules among other rules, India quickly developed RuPay [0]. Now most debit cards in India are RuPay. CCs stand at 18% share. They also integrate seamlessly to UPI. Why doesn’t the EU consider something like that? They want to jump direct to digital currenci…

They are, it’s called Wero. It is a stopgap, and sits on top of SEPA.

Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48207004 - May 2026 (777 comments)

Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 - February 2026 (132 comments)

Europe's Banks Launch Wero Payments to Dislodge Visa, Mastercard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 - September 2024 (88 comments)

Unofficial Wero Adoption Tracker - https://www.werotracker.eu/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#99

Post by Hikikomori »

larkost wrote: post #88
Hikikomori wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just don't have that much fraud instead.

I don't have numbers for you, but I do know that every European I know is much more worried about card fraud than the Americans I know. One quick example is that the Europeans get very nervous when the waiter takes the credit card away from the table in the U.S.. This is just not done in Europe because there is a (at least perceived) history of skimming in much of Europe. One big difference is that in the U.S. cardho…

Taking a card away from the table is weird for us because it's not what we do here so it becomes suspicious. Even so skimming is much less of a problem since chip and pin were introduced. Nobody I know has had any issues with fraud. We also require 2fa for online purchases.

There's also a large difference between counties. In the Nordics its ubiquitous, I haven't carried or needed cash for almost 20 years. Meanwhile Germany has barely started to use cards.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#100

Post by retired »

cloudengineer94 wrote: post #64

Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards. Credit Card in Europe is very much associated with Debt.

And most Europeans that have a credit-card need to pay them off at the end of the month. Technically they are charge cards. Unlike a traditional credit card, a charge card does not allow you to carry a revolving balance.
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