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Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#61

Post by anigbrowl »

Symbiote wrote: post #11
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #6

I hope that they don't fall into the same trap that a lot of EU projects fall in to: only solving one problem. My VISA card is not only a convenient payment method, it also forces ATM operators to give me cash without any extra fees. In Germany the EC card used to be THE way of paying with a card but you had to go to the ATMs of your bank, otherwise there would be sometimes pretty ridiculous fees. The kicker was that…

I think ATM fees are unrelated to the card type. My Danish bank imposed a fee on using an ATM from another bank, until my income was high enough to make me a "premium" customer, then these fees were removed. The card didn't change.

Similar situation in the US. It's common for banks to abuse their least wealthy customers.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#62

Post by toomuchtodo »

drstewart wrote: post #50
toomuchtodo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fancy instant payments, which most of the developed world already has. The question is which unnecessary intermediaries do you continue to remove as you refactor legacy financial infra. Credit card rails are expensive legacy rails, that part of the stack is the target to disrupt in this context. In the context of the digital euro, you can think of it as a demand deposit account backed by the central bank (as mos…

>It’s fancy instant payments That's a massive oversimplification, and doesn't even address the OP's point that directly challenges this. Lot of errors in your post. Not to mention the fact that you confuse Mastercard and Visa for "credit card rails" further underscores this.

The exact technical details aren’t terribly relevant imho, just that the EU has found the will to implement a superior value storage and transfer system, a benefit of which is avoiding US entities and infra. I have intentionally simplified for the layman audience, and understand if you take issue with my simplification.

Your comment history shows a decidedly anti EU sentiment, including against EU sovereignty (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48515118, for example), make of that what you will.

> How come the EU is making a "digital sovereignty" push? Why are only EU people allowed to compete for EU services? Are there no evil people in the EU?

I like tech that improves efficiency (disintermediating unnecessary US commercial payment processors) and decouples from proven threat actors and nation state aggressors, that is my interest on this topic, ymmv.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#63

Post by amadeuspagel »

> The approval of draft rules by the economic committee of the European Parliament comes after three years of wrangling between the ECB and banks, which have been concerned about deposit outflows and lost revenues and sought to limit the scope of the project.

This kind of thing is why I'm optimistic both about Bitcoin and fiat currencies in third world countries like Brazil and India.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#65

Post by euio757 »

looperhacks wrote: post #41
xxpor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans being so scared of debt is so funny. Just pay off your card every month. The liability model is completely different in the US from Europe w.r.t. merchant vs bank. The interchange fees are much much higher in the US, which is what pays for the rewards. Europe has an artificial cap.

I don't think it's primarily about being scared of debt, it's just a weird, unnecessary step in-between. I have a credit-card and even I don't understand why I should prefer it over my debit card

Setting weird rewards/cash back things aside, which is the main incentive for folks to use it over debit card in most places:

It's not fully unnecessary step in-between when fraud is involved.

If someone hacks you/deceives you and somehow they got $5000 from your debit card, then your bank account is $5000 smaller. That can impact your ability to pay rent, or whatever you needed those $5000 for.

If it's via credit card, you have a decent amount of time to contest and resolve the issue.

the disputed amount should effectively be removed from your balance or offset by a temporary provisional credit until the investigation is completed

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#66

Post by blenklo »

BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #6

I hope that they don't fall into the same trap that a lot of EU projects fall in to: only solving one problem. My VISA card is not only a convenient payment method, it also forces ATM operators to give me cash without any extra fees. In Germany the EC card used to be THE way of paying with a card but you had to go to the ATMs of your bank, otherwise there would be sometimes pretty ridiculous fees. The kicker was that…

As far as i know, your Visa provider pays for the bank ATM fee and they do this with the motivation that you pay with your Credit Card which then basically makes the merchents pay it through the credit card transaction fee which at the end you pay anyway.

I do use my credit card everywere and i'm sure ingdiba is also saving money due to not having offices/ATMs everywhere, but i wouldn't mind if something in the background changes and we can replace Visa/Mastercard with something from the EU.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#67

Post by mothballed »

poisonborz wrote: post #53
freediddy wrote: post #23

How does digital euro replace credit cards? That's basically the same as direct debit. It doesn't address the reason why I use credit cards. I use credit cards as a proxy for my bank accounts. I know that my issuing bank will protect me from all fraud so I don't have to worry about losing money if I buy something from a fraudulent merchant. I also know I can do things like chargebacks if I have to. None of this is ad…

In EU most people use direct debit. The term "credit card" is almost synonymous with debit. Chargebacks theoretically exists but they are more complicated, I don't know anyone who ever did that.

How do you deal with fraud and people cleaning out your bank account money rather than OPM of a credit card company? Just have enough spare cash for a burner checking account and wait for the fraud reversal?

In the US you'll almost always get your money back if someone defrauds your debit card but you could be in for a painful time if you depend on the money in that checking account until it gets fixed.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#68

Post by BadBadJellyBean »

Symbiote wrote: post #11
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #6

I hope that they don't fall into the same trap that a lot of EU projects fall in to: only solving one problem. My VISA card is not only a convenient payment method, it also forces ATM operators to give me cash without any extra fees. In Germany the EC card used to be THE way of paying with a card but you had to go to the ATMs of your bank, otherwise there would be sometimes pretty ridiculous fees. The kicker was that…

I think ATM fees are unrelated to the card type. My Danish bank imposed a fee on using an ATM from another bank, until my income was high enough to make me a "premium" customer, then these fees were removed. The card didn't change.

I don't know why but my bank offers a VISA debit card and an EC card. I can use the VISA card on every ATM without fees and it doesn't cost me extra. The EC card has extra fees for when I want to get cash with it. I have seen other banks do the same. I think I heard that this is a VISA thing but maybe I'm wrong or misheard.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#69

Post by BadBadJellyBean »

ipaddr wrote: post #13
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #6

I hope that they don't fall into the same trap that a lot of EU projects fall in to: only solving one problem. My VISA card is not only a convenient payment method, it also forces ATM operators to give me cash without any extra fees. In Germany the EC card used to be THE way of paying with a card but you had to go to the ATMs of your bank, otherwise there would be sometimes pretty ridiculous fees. The kicker was that…

Using a credit card generally forces you to pay fees and higher interest.

VISA has debit cards as well. I have that.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#70

Post by lotsofpulp »

cloudengineer94 wrote: post #64

Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards. Credit Card in Europe is very much associated with Debt.

The article uses the term credit card for apparently no reason, because Visa and Mastercard also support debit cards. The EU is probably more concerned about Visa and Mastercard payment networks being under the control of American leaders.
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