Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 259 posts

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#111

Post by dotancohen »

bayindirh wrote: post #68
chollida1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then he made a tweet that basically just says "I suggested this, some people like it, some hate it". That's super against the rules, because it attracts people to the proposal who otherwise wouldn't have seen it. How would this in any way be against the rules? Wouldn'tan open and democratic process like wikipedia want as many eyes as possible on a vote or rule change? That sounds completely backwards from the o…

(Note: This is what I got from the Talk page about the ban) The core idea is, Wikipedia has internal mechanisms to make these kinds of notifications, and making these decisions needs some knowledge and experience about how Wikipedia works. Recruiting inexperienced people to bias decisions which requires knowledge is effectively converting that proposal to a blunt instrument and trying to force your way in (aka bludge…

> Recruiting inexperienced people to bias decisions which requires knowledge is effectively converting that proposal to a blunt instrument and trying to force your way in (aka bludgeon).

I agree with your premise and with your conclusion. That said, campaigning in a democracy is exactly recruiting inexperienced people to bias decisions which requires knowledge. Any support of that viewpoint would effectively ban political campaigning.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#112

Post by classified »

pjc50 wrote: post #83
wongarsu wrote: post #31

So to summarize: he resuggested "WikiProject Intellectual Diversity", a group with the goal to make "Wikipedia more intellectually diverse" and "ensure fair and open decision-making and governance, broaden the range of permissible sources, reinforce genuine neutrality, rein in over-aggressive blocking while holding the powerful to higher standards of accountability", etc, with the implied undertone of preventing Wiki…

[flagged]

> that hit a nerve

Speaking the unvarnished truth often does.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#114

Post by Aurornis »

wongarsu wrote: post #52
Sweepi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there is a lot more, e.g.: After that, Larry Sanger remarked: "What people don't realize, actually, is the number of people who are actually at work on Wikipedia on any given day is not really that enormous. It's more in the hundreds or low thousands, not in the millions. Well, there's a lot of people in India. There's a lot of educated people in India, right? There's a lot more educated people in India than the…

Ok, saying things like "The left marched through this institution. There’s no reason we can’t march right back" is pretty bad. To be clear: it would be equally bad if you swapped left and right in that sentence. I don't know if his assessment of the issues with Wikipedia is correct, but his solutions aren't what you propose if you want to make Wikipedia more neutral

> Ok, saying things like "The left marched through this institution. There’s no reason we can’t march right back" is pretty bad.

He’s not saying they need to “march through this institution”. He’s saying they need to learn how to navigate the increasingly Byzantine rules set up by the small number of editors so they can contribute to the site.

Why would it be bad to counter bias by bringing in people from the under-represented group? What would be permissible to you, if not bringing in people from that group to participate?

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#115

Post by JdeBP »

dotancohen wrote: post #108
blanched wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and he's probably not being censored on those.

He is. His essays have been deleted.

Nope.

* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Larry_Sanger/Why_I_am_n...

Still there after 23 years.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#116

Post by dotancohen »

mzajc wrote: post #78

I encourage people to read through his proposed WikiProject's page[0] and the related discussion.[1] Important context is also that WikiProjects are exempt from canvassing rules; members are free to notify each other of ongoing policy discussions with the goal of influencing the outcome. This is usually not a problem, but given how aggressively vague the WikiProject's goals are (eg. "We hope to open Wikipedia up to u…

  > advocating for whitelisting of sources like Fox News
As I understood it, he wasn't advocating for whitelisting Fox News, he was advocating for removing the blacklist. That's a stark difference.

  > it's not a good look for Sanger either way.
What doesn't look good for him? It doesn't seem that he has an intent other than enabling the viewpoint of those other than the far-left, which compromise almost the entirety of Wikipedias admins and editors.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#117

Post by spidercat »

JdeBP wrote: post #92

There is a long history here, and if you are looking at just the WikiProject and the community ban discussion, you are missing a Hell of a lot. Very short background: Larry Sanger left Wikipedia in 2003. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/707321 Sanger went on to set up Citizendium, a wiki encyclopaedia project organized the way that xe thought one should be organized, with an extensive rulebase and 'consta…

Maybe not particularly relevant, but I'm noticing you using "xe" pronouns for Sanger. Why is that? Just wondering if I am missing more context.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#119

Post by fatata123 »

spidercat wrote: post #117
JdeBP wrote: post #92

There is a long history here, and if you are looking at just the WikiProject and the community ban discussion, you are missing a Hell of a lot. Very short background: Larry Sanger left Wikipedia in 2003. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/707321 Sanger went on to set up Citizendium, a wiki encyclopaedia project organized the way that xe thought one should be organized, with an extensive rulebase and 'consta…

Maybe not particularly relevant, but I'm noticing you using "xe" pronouns for Sanger. Why is that? Just wondering if I am missing more context.

[dead]

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#120

Post by vrganj »

throwawaypath wrote: post #106
wongarsu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, saying things like "The left marched through this institution. There’s no reason we can’t march right back" is pretty bad. To be clear: it would be equally bad if you swapped left and right in that sentence. I don't know if his assessment of the issues with Wikipedia is correct, but his solutions aren't what you propose if you want to make Wikipedia more neutral

[flagged]

> Why is that bad?

Because it's a far-right conspiracy theory implying Wikipedia editors are Red Guards purging universities, and calls for a counter-purge.

In other words, it is a thinly veiled call for violence based on a conspiracy theory.

The same conspiracy theory Anders Breivik explicitly cited after murdering 77 people.

Post reply on HN