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Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

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Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#81

Post by BrenBarn »

ianm218 wrote: post #13
foltik wrote: post #6

It’s a bit hard to feel sympathetic here. Those signing this petition actively enable and profit from one of the most pervasive surveillance networks ever built. Funny how much easier it is to tolerate something when it only affects other people.

I find Metas work very unethical but me but I think they should have basic workers rights still. Like yes what Meta is doing is legal and it’s at will work, but this level of surveillance feels like something the law didn’t really anticipate.

I think the level of surveillance Meta inflicts on the population at large is also something the law didn't anticipate. The solution is new laws that illegalize broad swaths of what Meta currently does.

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#82

Post by supertroop »

refactor_master wrote: post #9
supertroop wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think walkouts or protests don’t do anything, you might want to brush up on history. Or maybe discover it. Google is your friend. I mean everything from suffrage to organized labor to civil rights in the US was the result of massive coordinated action. You do know that right? Maybe even read up on Gandhi, or more recently French labor protests.

> Google is your friend But really, it's more like tolerated business partner, right?

That’s funny. On the nose. :)

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#83

Post by supertroop »

soundworlds wrote: post #19
refactor_master wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is your friend But really, it's more like tolerated business partner, right?

I've been using Kagi for the last year, and it is like an actually helpful business partner. Even if you use another one, we need to break the myth that Google is the only option out there.

I use Kagi. They actually use Google but with a different front end. I don’t plan to stop using Kagi.

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#84

Post by supertroop »

tdeck wrote: post #30
supertroop wrote: post #4

If I was Mark my answer would be “or what?” These people already work at a vile company. Which means they sold out already. If what mark does to other people doesn’t bother them they probably won’t have the backbone to leave if he says pound sand. “Oh it’s ok if you do it to other people just not me.” Get bent.

If this is what you get for selling out, just imagine what those of us who didn't sell out can expect? People sell out in order to get better conditions for themselves. Furthermore, this monitoring only strengthens Meta's ability to effectively surveil the rest of us.

lol people sell out for a paycheck. That doesn’t mean better conditions.

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#85

Post by supertroop »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #59
supertroop wrote: post #4

If I was Mark my answer would be “or what?” These people already work at a vile company. Which means they sold out already. If what mark does to other people doesn’t bother them they probably won’t have the backbone to leave if he says pound sand. “Oh it’s ok if you do it to other people just not me.” Get bent.

His answer was “or what?”. And then enough people they cared about quit, and now you’re seeing the articles about them apologizing, saying they care, etc. So the petition didn’t work, exactly, but served as a warning: employees said, fix this (or else). Mark said “or else what?”, and enough people said “I quit” to make them look bad.

Good on them. Now go make the world a better place somewhere else besides that shithole company.

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#86

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #72

"Do I need to worry about potential future employers finding this? No. Indexing by search engines is fully suppressed by robots.txt and headers (not the company Meta, here it refer to an HTML tag). A potential employer searching your name will never see this page via search engines like Google or Bing."

Are there Meta employees who don't undetstand HTML elements

Would these employees understand "technical measures"

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#87

Post by soundworlds »

supertroop wrote: post #83
soundworlds wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Kagi for the last year, and it is like an actually helpful business partner. Even if you use another one, we need to break the myth that Google is the only option out there.

I use Kagi. They actually use Google but with a different front end. I don’t plan to stop using Kagi.

Glad to hear you're also enjoying it!

Just for anyone else reading, I would say it is inaccurate to say it is a different front-end over Google. They pull from a range of search engines, but also run their own web crawlers and indices. It's the closest thing to a fully new search engine we've had so far.

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#88

Post by fragmede »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #53
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NAL but it may be protected activity to improve working conditionals. I would guess Meta leadership doesn’t actually care very much if someone signed it. And typically the people making firing decisions are not necessarily the ones that want the AI training data anyway.

also NAL and i think you’re right, the petition even says as much. but at-will employment means they can fire you for basically any other reason, and they probably have at least 10 to choose from at any given time.

The NLRB isn't entirely toothless, and retaliatory firing is actually illegal.

Re: Petition against Meta's employee training data collection for ML models

#89

Post by jdpigeon »

tdeck wrote: post #27

People who are focusing on whether we should have sympathy for Meta employees here are missing the point. Meta employees have some of the strongest bargaining power in our industry. This particular imposition is undesirable to almost everyone. There is no upside in it for employees. Therefore, if Meta employees can be forced to accept it, everyone will be. And you'd better believe that there will be a flood of compan…

100%. Canaries in the coal mine.
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