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Job application asked for my SAT scores

mrmarket.lol

101–110 of 403 posts

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#101
post #96

I had a friend with an MS show up for first-day of work for a job that asked for SAT scores on the application. HR said "we never got documentation for your SAT scores, can you provide that?" He was on the phone with his mother, having her go through a filing cabinet when he realized that he didn't want to work for a company that was this serious about SAT scores when hiring someone with a post-graduate degree.

That does seem wild. Out of curiosity, did he also have to submit GRE scores, which would be closer in time and more representative of his current knowledge/skills?

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#102

The SAT vs ACT preference map on Wikipedia is something I had not seen before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SAT-ACT-Preference-Map.sv...

I took both (since I could just use whichever I scored better on for applications), and the ACT is a much less miserable format. The test is broken up into much larger time chunks, meaning I could take a more useful nap after finishing a 50 minute section in 20 minutes than I could finishing a 20 minute section in 8.

Difficulty wise, the ACT was easier, but not by a lot. They seemed to have pretty similar predictive strengths, based on percentiles of people I knew lining up between the two, but obviously the ACT loses precision because of how coarsely it's scored.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sneaky age filter? You must be young enough to remember your SAT scores. I can remember mine just fine. If you're really looking for smart people, use "Answer this word problem in two or more paragraphs. Write your answer on the sheet of paper provided. In cursive."

Are people who were forced to learn cursive smarter? They're just older. Doing this may well expose you to age discrimination lawsuits, since it's just sneaky indirect age filtering. Another example would be if you required a minimum SAT score of 1601. Sure, someone could have gone off and taken the SAT as an adult or a young child but in reality it is mainly an age filter.

> Are people who were forced to learn cursive smarter? They're just older.

My kids are learning cursive in elementary school right now, FWIW.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#104
post #68

This by default includes a whole bunch of people who didn't take any kind of standardized tests (most notably, immigrants). The (albeit small) country I'm from doesn't do any. Reasoning was that standardized tests create an environment where teaching is merely done to create good test scores, not to actually teach.

The SAT doesn’t test course material. It is literally just applying middle school math and English proficiency.

It's not just middle school math. It covers geometry and algebra 2, which very few students complete in middle school.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#105
It's weird that people think AI breaks the concept of work sample testing. Work sample testing isn't "about" programming, and predates the profession of programming. You can (and some companies do) work-sample test sales account managers, customer support, accountants, whatever.

AI changes the underlying job you're testing for. So, obviously, the tests you might have been using pre-AI won't work anymore; they're testing something that isn't really the job anymore. Update your tests so they're about the real work again, that's all. For coding, that probably means assuming (or requiring) candidates use AI to do your assessment.

What AI really does mess with is conversational/interactive interviewing. We do all our interactive scripted interview on Slack, but I can imagine us having to end that practice and return to face-to-face.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you say the same for SAT tests, where the score is best of N and N is however many the person can afford and varies between candidates?

Not only that, but the SAT is not an IQ test and you can definitely study for it. Students with wealthy or motivated parents can get study books or tutors which makes a huge difference in score. The Princeton Review promises a 200 point score improvement with some of their packages. And they can fairly-reliably achieve it too.

And I guarantee you that claim is based on an intentionally flawed experiment where they take students who have never seen the test before vs after completing the program. The actual control should be against students who have taken a couple of cheaply available practice tests.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#107

I just applied to Epic, the EHR company from Wisconsin, and I can confirm that they also ask for SAT scores. Thankfully I have my collegeboard credentials saved

Out of curiosity, did they require SATs, or just ask? And how many years out of HS are you? Seems like it would be crazy to ask for them once someone has finished college and has a UGPA to report.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#108
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not opposed to the use of test scores, it's more the requirement that kids have the whole package of grades+activities+honors societies+test scores consistently through a phase of life that is widely understood as tumultuous for many. We're selecting for robots. There's a reason the west was so productive in terms of new scientific and technological discoveries in the twentieth century, and it's not that our scie…

> the whole package of grades+activities+honors societies+test scores This is _also_ a very US thing. Without true competition, students have to fluff their "resumes" with nonsense to get admitted into good colleges. Other countries have tougher tests that can provide a better signal. > We're selecting for robots. I disagree. We're selecting for people who can set a goal and follow it. Apply the same arguments to spo…

I didn't really state my whole view, but hard exams like Oxford and Cambridge use make sense for elite colleges to use (rather than unrelated extracurriculars), but reforming the whole education system to be oriented around a single high stakes test like in China or Korea has its own severe costs. I do not want high schoolers to spend 20 hours a week at hagwons, and the current resume filler system is also terrible. I do not think declining admissions rates at elite universities reflect that the students are any smarter or more prepared than they were 20 years ago, but rather they are much more cutthroat about many things that are orthogonal to being successful adults.

Ideally we'd follow a more exam focused system more like the UK, though I wouldn't want to require all students to only study 3-4 subjects towards the end of high school. But something in the european model of IB/Abitur/A Levels, where there are serious exams in various subjects at the end of high school for all uni bound students, plus some special higher level exams for the most elite unis (in the vein of Cambridge's Sixth Term Examination Paper). We could probably repurpose AP exams to fill a similar admissions role to A Levels, and possibly use the AMC/AIME/USAMO more explicitly for admission.

Edit: this doesn't let me reply again, I think the chain got too deep. But the point is that we're not just using AP exams and USAMO scores, we're also using a pile of other metrics around extracurriculars, GPA, and honors societies, and the end result is stressed out children and not actually having better outcomes than we did two decades ago. Declining admissions rates at elite colleges do not reflect smarter and more productive incoming students.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#109
post #86

> One of the least effective predictors was unstructured interviews or 'chats’ Yeah those are the worst, one time I had an “interview” with a company that I really liked, the founder is also an awesome guy and we chatted few times and all is well. Then I got invited to their facility, great place and team, some of them were structured on how they evaluate, but most of them were an absolute mess, and some of them were…

I've been talking to a few companies lately, and one just keeps stringing it along, having me talk to manager after manager. It's been 6 weeks, and still no end in sight

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#110
post #65

I’ll do you one better: I was denied a role with a major engineering firm based on my 3.something GPA! They needed a 3.4 or 3.5.

Many years ago I was walking around a college job fair when a recruiter was yelling at a college student. His crime: "wasting everybody's time" by presenting a Resume with a 3.4 GPA when the company clearly listed a 3.5 GPA as the minimum they would accept.

If this is how they treat people that don't yet work for them, it doesn't bode well for how they will treat people that work for them.

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