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Job application asked for my SAT scores

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Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#91

Post by tptacek »

obviouslynotme wrote: post #45

They are obviously using the SAT as a safer alternative to the legally dubious practice of IQ testing which can lead to running afoul of the ADA and EEOC. I'm not sure it's much safer, but I am positive it's less safe than doing timed leetcode. At least leetcode problems can be painted as relating to the job. Additionally, the SAT is a shitty IQ test that is constantly crammed for and cheated on. I remember my SAT te…

IQ testing isn't legally dubious. The idea that it is is an Internet myth. There are a couple household-name corporations that administer general cognitive tests for candidates for some roles.

More companies don't do it because it doesn't work well.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#92

Post by cyberax »

annzabelle wrote: post #74
cyberax wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US education has always been competitive. In sports. Its school system has always been a state-sponsored daycare. SAT/ACT tests reflect this. I can get a perfect score in SAT math easily. And I likely could do that as a kid (I never took standardized tests at school). I wouldn't have been able to get the perfect scores in the Chinese gaokao or Korean/Japanese tests. > There are a lot of people who are extremely b…

I'm not opposed to the use of test scores, it's more the requirement that kids have the whole package of grades+activities+honors societies+test scores consistently through a phase of life that is widely understood as tumultuous for many. We're selecting for robots. There's a reason the west was so productive in terms of new scientific and technological discoveries in the twentieth century, and it's not that our scie…

> the whole package of grades+activities+honors societies+test scores

This is _also_ a very US thing. Without true competition, students have to fluff their "resumes" with nonsense to get admitted into good colleges.

Other countries have tougher tests that can provide a better signal.

> We're selecting for robots.

I disagree. We're selecting for people who can set a goal and follow it.

Apply the same arguments to sports. Should we not stop all the competitions until the age of 25?

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#93

Post by OkayPhysicist »

JohnMakin wrote: post #60

> Take-home projects or a trial period of some kind. This makes the most intuitive sense by far: having candidates do a representative slice of the job gives you a solid idea of whether they'd be any good at it. Combining this with structured interviews was (before AI) considered a gold standard; you'd get a sense of who they are and how they work by talking, have a way to compare them pretty objectively to other can…

Best middle ground I ever had was an interview where they impose a strict 1 hour (maybe it was 90 minutes, idk) time limit between when I got the prompt and when I emailed them back. Then they spent some time looking over it, then I had an interview with an engineer who had read my code and we chatted about it. Why I had made certain decisions, what corners were cut because of the time limit, etc.

Felt very fair. Not enough time to assign a valuable task, enough time and privacy that I wasn't under the gun like you are in a whiteboard interview, and it was pretty applicable to what I would be doing at the company. Solid interview. Didn't get the job, but respected the process.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#94

Post by apparent »

georgeecollins wrote: post #76
ogou wrote: post #23

I have seen company descriptions in job ads that list college achievements of founders. They are invariably young Asian men. I understand that it's a cultural signifier and don't judge them. But, I also understand that I will never hear back from them because I don't share that background. So, I never apply to any job listing that references college experience of either side, other than wanting a degree in general.

I think it is a positive for an employer to ask for an SAT because it tells me right away I don't want to work for them. Once (a long time ago) I tried to upload my resume to apply for a job. The web page started asking me very basic questions, like a basic aptitude test. I was out. Tell me you do not know how to find and evaluate talent!

I think this is highly age-dependent. I took the SAT well over a decade ago and have significant work experience since then. It would be odd to require me to put down my SAT scores, which I don't even precisely remember.

But if I were Basically, colleges used to act as a filter for SAT and other attributes. During the 2020-2025 period, they admitted students under fairly different standards, due in part to testing challenges and social movements.

It makes sense for an employer to want to do a little more diligence to ensure that students who were admitted during this period are similar to students admitted during the prior several decades.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#95

Post by infamouscow »

If it's been 10+ years and an employer wants your SAT scores, 1600 is as good an answer as any. Anyone asking for that data point doesn't actually care about the accuracy, they just want to see if you'll compliantly jump through a pointless hoop.

(Save the "but that's fraud!" replies. It's not material to the job, so it isn't).

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#96

Post by aidenn0 »

I had a friend with an MS show up for first-day of work for a job that asked for SAT scores on the application. HR said "we never got documentation for your SAT scores, can you provide that?" He was on the phone with his mother, having her go through a filing cabinet when he realized that he didn't want to work for a company that was this serious about SAT scores when hiring someone with a post-graduate degree.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#97

Post by apparent »

dragonwriter wrote: post #85
apparent wrote: post #78

> Why would you ask for a self-reported, unverifiable test score that could be decades old at this point? Because many colleges that used to reliably filter for them no longer do (or didn't during a several-year period). It's true that self-reported scores are not the most accurate, but if I were applying for a job I would report honestly, on the assumption that they could easily request for the scores to be sent by…

> > Why would you ask for a self-reported, unverifiable test score that could be decades old at this point? > It's true that self-reported scores are not the most accurate, but if I were applying for a job I would report honestly, on the assumption that they could easily request for the scores to be sent by the College Board. No, they couldn't, except by going through you (the College Board doesn't take third-party s…

I am aware that third parties can't request scores. I was referring to the employer asking to have the scores sent, which the applicant would be compelled to do (or look like they fudged their original score reporting).

I'm also aware that the College Board doesn't hang onto scores forever. I doubt there are any employers who require SAT scores for applicants who took it prior to 200% (the cutoff indicated in your linked article).

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#98

Post by apparent »

delichon wrote: post #28

Last month 2,400 University of California faculty asked for admissions to resume using the SAT "to ensure foundational fluency." Of course many employers want to ensure that too, especially when college degrees don't anymore. The widening abilities gap followed the 2020 elimination of the SAT/ACT, a temporary measure that has now become a permanent vulnerability. This outcome was explicitly predicted by the Academic…

The UC faculty opposed the SAT requirement being discarded in the first place. They were overruled by the UC Regents, and that may happen again. And even if the SAT is brought back, I'm sure it will be given much less weight and subjected to the "in a local context" process in the name of equity.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#99

Post by consensus1 »

reaperducer wrote: post #14
tb99 wrote: post #7

Sneaky age filter? You must be young enough to remember your SAT scores.

Sneaky age filter? You must be young enough to remember your SAT scores. I can remember mine just fine. If you're really looking for smart people, use "Answer this word problem in two or more paragraphs. Write your answer on the sheet of paper provided. In cursive."

The signal being that the smart people will refuse to jump through this hoop in your inane process because they have a lot of other opportunities to choose from.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#100

Post by aidenn0 »

gmadsen wrote: post #68
OptionOfT wrote: post #22

This by default includes a whole bunch of people who didn't take any kind of standardized tests (most notably, immigrants). The (albeit small) country I'm from doesn't do any. Reasoning was that standardized tests create an environment where teaching is merely done to create good test scores, not to actually teach.

The SAT doesn’t test course material. It is literally just applying middle school math and English proficiency.

Starting in 2016 College Board said that they were aligning the test with Common Core, so this might not be true any more.
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