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Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

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Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#101
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I expect the economics of enough batteries to carry a data center’s worth of demand through the night and morning is too expensive compared to essentially free natural gas. Data centers would ideally run at ~100% utilization, so any drop in solar output needs to be fully met by batteries.

> Data centers would ideally run at ~100% utilization I don't think this is broadly accepted among major data center operators.

Of conventional data centers or one's running GPUs? If you're not saturating your GPUs you're likely leaving money on the table.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#103
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will also want reliable power, which seems like justification enough to keep their options open. A “phased, modular approach” sounds like it would give them options. Maybe Microsoft could install solar and/or batteries later and use their natural gas turbines for backup? With enough batteries they might get through the night, but seasonal shortages are much harder to handle that way. I bet a carbon tax on data c…

You can generally solve seasonal shortfalls cheaply by simply adding more solar / wind until you no longer have a seasonal shortfall just a massive surplus in a different part of the year. Put another way if you want to store power say 1GWh for the worst month, well a solar panel provides a lot of power over even the worst month. 20MW of solar panel averaging even 40MWh/day * 30 days = 1.2GWh and cost way less than 1…

I don’t believe the “cheaply” part. You end up building storage that only gets used for one cycle a year, so the capital cost is very high per watt.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#104

Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders - A Microsoft employee 2080

The planet go destroyed millions of times during its 4 billion history. I'm pretty sure it will survive this time as well.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#105
post #101
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Data centers would ideally run at ~100% utilization I don't think this is broadly accepted among major data center operators.

Of conventional data centers or one's running GPUs? If you're not saturating your GPUs you're likely leaving money on the table.

I don't really agree. The energy component of opex still dominates over the depreciation.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#106
post #95
post #21

The current natural gas price in West Texas (the WaHa hub, north of Coyanosa, TX) is negative. And has been for a while. The price peaked (dipped?) to -$9/MCF a couple months ago. That means gas producers had to pay $9 per MCF for it to be taken away. Oil in the Permian comes with gas, a lot of it, so to produce oil, you need to get rid of gas. Wells I'm familiar with have 4000-5000 cubic feet of gas per barrel of oi…

I don't understand why datacenters especially shouldn't be able to run mostly on renewables. This won't apply to every datacenter, but the AI inference ones especially, should be seeing most demand during the day. So what's built in north America is used when it's daylight there? If so, isn't that a perfect case for solar? To be clear, I'm not saying it can power down, but at night it should be able to scale down sig…

> should be seeing most demand during the day

I don't know if this is necessarily true - latency isn't really important for inference in the same way as many other services (at least the max ~300ms latency you get from hitting something on the other side of the globe) - compute in NA can serve all the other timezones just fine.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#107

Fascinating they're going this direction when solar and batteries are so cheap in Texas... Nearly all new additions to the grid are solar, wind, and storage right now on Texas' grid. Not because of Texas regulations, but because Texas' grid is one of the few grids where generation decisions are all made by independent investors trying to make money. Especially with the shortage in gas turbine manufacturing, very surp…

While the US stays oil rich, we should expect the US to be a laggard in ending use of fossil fuels. China and EU are not oil rich, they’ll make a faster transition. Of course it’s idiotic to actively hobble clean energy. Or to put your finger on the scale for one source of energy, like the current administration does. But it’s not crazy to argue for “energy abundance” where the market just picks the cheapest energy o…

Oil is readily transportable and there is a global market.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#108
post #83
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsom aside, the idea is to change from oil to non-oil, efficient from mono-industrial.. The US Oil minions claim to be blind to this and cite quarterly profits, again

Then why does Texas install more solar?

Cause California is #2 in that stat.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#109
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will also want reliable power, which seems like justification enough to keep their options open. A “phased, modular approach” sounds like it would give them options. Maybe Microsoft could install solar and/or batteries later and use their natural gas turbines for backup? With enough batteries they might get through the night, but seasonal shortages are much harder to handle that way. I bet a carbon tax on data c…

You can generally solve seasonal shortfalls cheaply by simply adding more solar / wind until you no longer have a seasonal shortfall just a massive surplus in a different part of the year. Put another way if you want to store power say 1GWh for the worst month, well a solar panel provides a lot of power over even the worst month. 20MW of solar panel averaging even 40MWh/day * 30 days = 1.2GWh and cost way less than 1…

> Near the arctic circle Wind fill the same niche.

What do you mean? Long periods of calm weather during cold temperatures is not unheard of in Finland and does cause issues at times due to amount of wind energy that has been built in recent times.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#110
post #21

The current natural gas price in West Texas (the WaHa hub, north of Coyanosa, TX) is negative. And has been for a while. The price peaked (dipped?) to -$9/MCF a couple months ago. That means gas producers had to pay $9 per MCF for it to be taken away. Oil in the Permian comes with gas, a lot of it, so to produce oil, you need to get rid of gas. Wells I'm familiar with have 4000-5000 cubic feet of gas per barrel of oi…

This might make sense for oil producers to get rid of their natural gas, which is nearly a waste material, but I'm struggling to understand how it makes sense for Microsoft. Despite the cheap natural gas, and an abundance of investors and builders with natural gas expertise, in the competitive electricity generation market everybody is deploying solar and batteries in west Texas because it's still more profitable tha…

Do any huge datacenters run on solar + battery? I thought the point of gas turbines was to have reliable power that's set up quickly.
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