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Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

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Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#51

Post by jmward01 »

I love how they are using a company named 'Solar Turbines'. Such an obviously misleading name. (From their website)[1]:

Powering the future through innovative, sustainable energy solutions.

Solar Turbines Incorporated, headquartered in San Diego, California, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Caterpillar Inc. Solar manufactures the world’s most widely used family of mid-sized industrial gas turbines, ranging from 1 to 39 megawatts. More than 17,000 Solar units are installed in more than 100 countries with more than 3 billion operating hours. Solar is a leading provider of energy solutions, featuring an extensive line of gas turbine-powered compressor sets, mechanical drive packages, and generator sets.

[1] https://www.solarturbines.com/en_US/about-us.html

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#52

Post by alex43578 »

epistasis wrote: post #49
stonogo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it, though? Yes. There is no point in waiting for interconnection when you can just... not do that, and do all your generation behind the meter, with complete control of the generation to match your load. Solar wants an interconnect so they can sell off surplus; with gas you just turn the dial down to meet the load and walk away. The clock is running on the datacenter goldrush. 70-90% of the capex window is goin…

I'm not saying wait for an interconnection, I'm saying take a project that already has a fully developed plan, that's waiting for interconnection, and build the DC right there next to it, beef up the battery component of the plan and go to town. Interconnection happens some time in the future, giving far more financial opportunities for everyone, but in the interim the electricity goes fully to the DC.

Because I expect the economics of enough batteries to carry a data center’s worth of demand through the night and morning is too expensive compared to essentially free natural gas.

Data centers would ideally run at ~100% utilization, so any drop in solar output needs to be fully met by batteries.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#53

Post by alex43578 »

credit_guy wrote: post #46
epistasis wrote: post #6

Fascinating they're going this direction when solar and batteries are so cheap in Texas... Nearly all new additions to the grid are solar, wind, and storage right now on Texas' grid. Not because of Texas regulations, but because Texas' grid is one of the few grids where generation decisions are all made by independent investors trying to make money. Especially with the shortage in gas turbine manufacturing, very surp…

But they are using wind: > A majority of the generation will come from large GE Vernova (NYSE: GEV) turbines.

Unless the article specifies wind, GE Vernova makes gas turbines too.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#54

Post by mlsu »

jmward01 wrote: post #51

I love how they are using a company named 'Solar Turbines'. Such an obviously misleading name. (From their website)[1]: Powering the future through innovative, sustainable energy solutions. Solar Turbines Incorporated, headquartered in San Diego, California, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Caterpillar Inc. Solar manufactures the world’s most widely used family of mid-sized industrial gas turbines, ranging from 1 to 3…

To be fair, solar turbines has had the name since 1929 (they were then called solar aircraft company). It’s not like they’re being intentionally misleading.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#55

Post by chasd00 »

epistasis wrote: post #45
stonogo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of gas is completely irrelevant. In order to bring a new large load onto the grid, you have to coordinate with ERCOT, and they just made that process more tedious. Once you get your grid connection approved and built out, you have to source your own power anyway, and frankly there just isn't enough power on the market to realize the stated datacenter buildout goals in this country. In short, you're going to…

> Gas is the cheapest, fastest zero-to-production choice for onsite power generation, and has been for a long time. Is it, though? There's a ton of projects out there waiting to get their solar on the grid in west Texas, partnering with one of them and launching the project early while waiting on the interconnection queue, and adding enough batteries, gives a more robust solution right now without the SPOF nature of…

> Is it, though? There's a ton of projects out there waiting to get their solar on the grid in west Texas,

gas turbines run at night too so there's no storage/backup supply issue to consider. They also take up significantly less space than wind or solar and those data centers are already gigantic.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#56

Post by jeffbee »

alex43578 wrote: post #52
epistasis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying wait for an interconnection, I'm saying take a project that already has a fully developed plan, that's waiting for interconnection, and build the DC right there next to it, beef up the battery component of the plan and go to town. Interconnection happens some time in the future, giving far more financial opportunities for everyone, but in the interim the electricity goes fully to the DC.

Because I expect the economics of enough batteries to carry a data center’s worth of demand through the night and morning is too expensive compared to essentially free natural gas. Data centers would ideally run at ~100% utilization, so any drop in solar output needs to be fully met by batteries.

> Data centers would ideally run at ~100% utilization

I don't think this is broadly accepted among major data center operators.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#58

Post by jmward01 »

mlsu wrote: post #54
jmward01 wrote: post #51

I love how they are using a company named 'Solar Turbines'. Such an obviously misleading name. (From their website)[1]: Powering the future through innovative, sustainable energy solutions. Solar Turbines Incorporated, headquartered in San Diego, California, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Caterpillar Inc. Solar manufactures the world’s most widely used family of mid-sized industrial gas turbines, ranging from 1 to 3…

To be fair, solar turbines has had the name since 1929 (they were then called solar aircraft company). It’s not like they’re being intentionally misleading.

Thanks for point that out. I missed that context.

Re: Chevron signs 20-year power agreement with Microsoft for West Texas data center

#60

Post by chasd00 »

epistasis wrote: post #16
softwaredoug wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the US stays oil rich, we should expect the US to be a laggard in ending use of fossil fuels. China and EU are not oil rich, they’ll make a faster transition. Of course it’s idiotic to actively hobble clean energy. Or to put your finger on the scale for one source of energy, like the current administration does. But it’s not crazy to argue for “energy abundance” where the market just picks the cheapest energy o…

Well what I'm saying that is that on the Texas grid, solar and storage and wind are the cheapest energy, and being deployed in massive amounts because only on the Texas can an investor make money by providing the cheapest energy. (For most utilities, they take a fixed rate of profit and are incentivized to use the most expensive possible energy if they can get away with it.) So Texas is not a laggard when it comes to…

> But why would they go this direction?

sibling comment has it, they want to do power generation on site and not connected to the grid and all the PITA that come with that. Further, they can pitch power independence to the locals which removes a big argument from the anti-datacenter crowd. Finally, the power gen i saw at Stargate in Abilene TX which was maybe 10 units (if that's what they're called) took up maybe 30 acres of land so they're not very big compared to the rest of the campus.

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