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NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

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Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#61

Post by avs733 »

tacomonstrous wrote: post #54

”For example, it allows NSF to make awards to nontraditional recipients such as a limited partnership or a venture capital firm, some of which might have been created solely for the purpose of receiving the NSF award. It also allows NSF to make additional awards without the need to review a new application.” obvious grifting opportunity

I think this is the larger point that is easy to miss.

Thinking about this as slashing science or making it more efficient or short sighted or innovative is all a distraction.

It’s just another opportunity to give money to the friends of those in government and take money from those you don’t. Say want you want about how it used to be, but this and the new rules around “political oversight” are just corruption and grift that are either wearing a mask of ideology or efficiency based on your political stance

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#62

Post by charcircuit »

malfist wrote: post #45
SoftTalker wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining Poster children for tech with no realistic commercial prospects. Projects in these fields have been pipe dreams for decades. Where are any commercial products in the areas of fusion reactors? Quantum computers? Asteroid mining operations? If private investors want to fund this stuff, fine. As long as they don't come seeking bailouts later.

Not only that, but fusion itself is absolutely not what a tech venture capitalist wants to fund. The research horizon for fusion power is in the multiple decades. You're never going to find an investor that says "Yeah, I'll give you enough money to build a fusion reactor and do research for 20+ years in the hopes that you get something workable" Fusion is literally still in the pure science stage that OP was telling…

The same thing could have been said about AGI 10 years ago.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#63

Post by tech_ken »

tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

> The government is going to suck at funding the right things

I'm pretty sure you have this totally backwards. People who study scientific development seem to think that the government is actually a really effective funder of research, and covers gaps that would never be addressed by private industry. See for example:

* https://www.aau.edu/newsroom/leading-research-universities-r...

* https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2022/07/government-fun...

* https://www.americanscientist.org/article/%E2%80%9Cwhy-are-w...

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#64

Post by ck2 »

pstuart wrote: post #55
ck2 wrote: post #29

again, it's all Russell Vought most people know who Stephen Miller is but the real monster is Russell Vought Heritage Foundation's #1 enforcer, the destruction of science and academia is their top 10 if Vance, their prized successor, somehow gets the reins in 2029 country is absolutely cooked * https://www.propublica.org/article/russ-vought-trump-shadow-... * https://www.propublica.org/article/video-donald-trump-russ…

They say they care about spending but ignore DOD financial shenanigans, which implies it's not about spending and only about what they like.

has nothing to do with money, it's about destroying science and medicine

president burns $2 million in federal funds almost every weekend golfing https://DidTrumpGolfToday.com

he took $100 million from park funds for his own birthday party

he just ransacked the nuclear missile maintenance program for almost a BILLION dollars to refurbish a half-billion dollar plane which he intends to keep somehow despite wildly illegal under emoluments clause

Iran War spent a BILLION dollars a day and has to be restocked

US funds and supplies Israel 2/3rd of their entire weapons supply (while they have universal healthcare)

again, not about savings, about destruction of science and medicine

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#65

Post by throw36932 »

ck2 wrote: post #64
pstuart wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say they care about spending but ignore DOD financial shenanigans, which implies it's not about spending and only about what they like.

has nothing to do with money, it's about destroying science and medicine president burns $2 million in federal funds almost every weekend golfing https://DidTrumpGolfToday.com he took $100 million from park funds for his own birthday party he just ransacked the nuclear missile maintenance program for almost a BILLION dollars to refurbish a half-billion dollar plane which he intends to keep somehow despite wildly ille…

> US funds and supplies Israel 2/3rd of their entire weapons supply (while they have universal healthcare)

This is misleading.

Israel’s annual budget is $270 Billion, of which $45 Billion is military. US aid is around $3.8 Billion a year.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#66

Post by rayiner »

gr_norm wrote: post #56

You and people you know will lead worse and less fulfilling lives due to this. You, or someone you love, will likely die of causes that would have been preventable without this destruction of domestic science. Academic culture undoubtedly needed reform, but this evisceration bent on shortsighted retribution will help absolutely nobody.

[flagged]

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#67

Post by rayiner »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #4
contemporary343 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's also a way to reduce funding to universities (which are politically disfavored), since other things like arbitrary reductions to indirect costs didn't work. It also defies both congressional will in the appropriations bill (which is directorate-specific) and of course the whole charter and mandate of NSF, from Vannevar Bush's original case for it.

Yeah, this is all well-attested. It’s so weird. Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, which presumably includes high-tech capabilities like global power projection, missile defense, and persistent space operations. At the same time they seemingly want a Cultural Revolution-like decimation of intellectuals. I don’t see how they believe they can attain both objectives at once.

The assumption is that the people in the universities who can build missiles can pretty easily be distinguished from those who can’t.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#68

Post by rayiner »

solid_fuel wrote: post #8
TimorousBestie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is all well-attested. It’s so weird. Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, which presumably includes high-tech capabilities like global power projection, missile defense, and persistent space operations. At the same time they seemingly want a Cultural Revolution-like decimation of intellectuals. I don’t see how they believe they can attain both objectives at once.

> Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, I used to think that too, but it seems evident the current crop of conservatives is only interested in hurting people they don’t like and funneling money into the pockets of oligarchs. It’s pretty evident now that none of this is being done out of patriotism or a genuine desire to improve America.

> hurting people they don’t like

> genuine desire to improve America

We think these are related, just like you do. The difference is that you assume that hurting billionaires will improve America while we assume that hurting NGOs and postmodernist academics will do so.

And that difference results from the fact that you think you can construct a new society without billionaires and industrialists that nonetheless offers the prosperity we have today, and more. By contrast, we think the way to get more prosperity is to do more of the things that made America prosperous in the past.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#69

Post by atonse »

counters wrote: post #40
TimorousBestie wrote: post #2

More or less a handout to the tech industry. This is just the STTR program with even less oversight and a questionable funding source. Curious what the plan is when the academic pipeline for training researchers collapses entirely. AI all the things?

But not even. At least in the domain I work in, there is virtually no interest of engaging with these NSF programs. Regardless of what's put in writing in the calls for applicants, there's still a significant prejudice that NSF - by being a part of the government - will be slow and ineffective at administering awards, and therefore it's a waste of time for any agile, fast-moving company. On the flip-side, my academic…

We have worked with many (NSF funded) research centers over the past decade. It (accidentally) became our speciality. If you know research centers that are looking for software dev firms that understand how to work with NSF funded grants and research centers, I’d love to connect.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#70

Post by voxl »

rayiner wrote: post #66
gr_norm wrote: post #56

You and people you know will lead worse and less fulfilling lives due to this. You, or someone you love, will likely die of causes that would have been preventable without this destruction of domestic science. Academic culture undoubtedly needed reform, but this evisceration bent on shortsighted retribution will help absolutely nobody.

[flagged]

Why is government research doing what the industry should be. The point of government research is to enable people to work on things without requiring some economical impact.

The fact you just happily ignore the political situation and the fact this is CLEARLY anti intellectual bullshit says all that needs to be said about you.

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