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NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

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Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#51

Post by TimorousBestie »

magicalist wrote: post #50
SoftTalker wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's at least a subset of them who do not. They want isolationism. Almost a juche sort of mentality. Stop propping up Europe/NATO. "No more foreign wars" was their rallying point. The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that.

> The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that. So, like...Thomas Massie and Rand Paul? There were only four republicans in the House and four in the Senate to vote to limit war powers, and I don't think you could claim Murkowski or Collins are isolationists. Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and me…

> Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way?

That’s how I understood it, yes. So unhappy that they’ll write him in for a third term.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#52

Post by anigbrowl »

ianm218 wrote: post #23

> By levying such a large tax on its other programs, the agency appears to be defying a congressional directive in the final FY 2026 appropriations bill that “No [NSF] directorate shall receive more than a 5 percent reduction relative to the fiscal year 2024 enacted level.” That language was meant to address fears by the research community and some legislators that NSF, if its overall budget remained flat, might deci…

Yes. imho it's impeachable because the repeated defiance of Congress indicates an unwillingness to 'faithfully execute the laws'. I'm pretty sure you could measure the statistical probability of this being intentional rather than simply erroneous by looking at the distributions of affirmations or reversals in court decisions.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#53

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #33
tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

> quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining Poster children for tech with no realistic commercial prospects. Projects in these fields have been pipe dreams for decades. Where are any commercial products in the areas of fusion reactors? Quantum computers? Asteroid mining operations? If private investors want to fund this stuff, fine. As long as they don't come seeking bailouts later.

General Fusion's approach seems pretty realistically commercializable. They're struggling to get any funding though, probably a symptom of being in Canada.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#54

Post by tacomonstrous »

”For example, it allows NSF to make awards to nontraditional recipients such as a limited partnership or a venture capital firm, some of which might have been created solely for the purpose of receiving the NSF award. It also allows NSF to make additional awards without the need to review a new application.”

obvious grifting opportunity

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#55

Post by pstuart »

ck2 wrote: post #29

again, it's all Russell Vought most people know who Stephen Miller is but the real monster is Russell Vought Heritage Foundation's #1 enforcer, the destruction of science and academia is their top 10 if Vance, their prized successor, somehow gets the reins in 2029 country is absolutely cooked * https://www.propublica.org/article/russ-vought-trump-shadow-... * https://www.propublica.org/article/video-donald-trump-russ…

They say they care about spending but ignore DOD financial shenanigans, which implies it's not about spending and only about what they like.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#56

Post by gr_norm »

You and people you know will lead worse and less fulfilling lives due to this. You, or someone you love, will likely die of causes that would have been preventable without this destruction of domestic science. Academic culture undoubtedly needed reform, but this evisceration bent on shortsighted retribution will help absolutely nobody.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#57

Post by actionfromafar »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #53
SoftTalker wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining Poster children for tech with no realistic commercial prospects. Projects in these fields have been pipe dreams for decades. Where are any commercial products in the areas of fusion reactors? Quantum computers? Asteroid mining operations? If private investors want to fund this stuff, fine. As long as they don't come seeking bailouts later.

General Fusion's approach seems pretty realistically commercializable. They're struggling to get any funding though, probably a symptom of being in Canada.

A symptom of not bribing the Orange Purse King?

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#58

Post by speed_spread »

downrightmike wrote: post #22
tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

Tax payers fund the research, they should get a cut of whatever company uses that research.

Taxpayers get their cut through results being public for anyone to use. It's science for a better society at large, not for the benefit of the few that can wield it.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#59

Post by contemporary343 »

If you haven't read it already, it's really worth digesting the arguments Vannevar Bush made regarding funding basic science in 1945 (Science: The Endless Frontier) which resulted in the NSF as we know it being founded:

https://nsf-gov-resources.nsf.gov/2023-04/EndlessFrontier75t...

"A nation which depends upon others for its new basic scientific knowl- edge will be slow in its industrial progress and weak in its competitive position in world trade, regardless of its mechanical skill."

I think FROs are certainly worth exploring, but if we're diverting vast amounts of funding to existing research infrastructure and talent to funding them, the opportunity costs are huge. This is not well appreciated, but universities are in fact very cheap places to do research compared to any modern alternative one might construct. I suspect FROs will end up being much more expensive just for structural reasons, and will end up re-discovering the university bundle slowly and piece by piece. Moreover, for many types of research they will have to effectively rebuild a range of infrastructure (facilities, equipment, etc.) that already exists at universities throughout the country.

None of this justifies blowing up the extensive basic research infrastructure we have today in pursuit of unproven experiments. Once they're proven, a conversation can be had about how to reconfigure existing assets and new government-funded approaches. But such discussions must include congress, the appropriators of the funds.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#60

Post by lostdog »

tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

> But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more

Hmm I wonder how these were originally funded when it was less likely that they would work.

And by cutting funding now, I wonder what we're missing out on in the future.

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