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FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

arstechnica.com

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Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#141

Post by nfw2 »

hilariously wrote: post #126
nfw2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harris lost by a couple percentage points in few key states. Perhaps the news you are talking about wouldn't be happening if trust in institutions hadn't fallen so low. I don't think whataboutism is helpful here. I think the FDA was broadly well-intentioned, and this administration is not. But this article isn't about ICE.

You're right, this article is about the Trump administration going out of their way to pick political appointees who go out of their way to make us sicker in such a despicable way that even they cannot justify it. It's wild to me that we keep talking about Biden/Kamala as if they are the ones responsible for the lost in trust in institutions when we have a Republican party and Fox news that blast that the government…

All models are wrong but some are useful. Blame is rarely a useful model because solutions require internal locus of control not external

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#143

Post by nfw2 »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #89
nfw2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't care to step in and impose compassion, so they might as well not exist. Is this not what the store owners did?

Zero patrons inside the stores cared/did anything. A business structuring things to prevent a scene is not compassion in my mind, just like pride awareness by businesses wasn't actual pride awareness.

Deciding whether someone's helpful actions or lack thereof is good or bad based on your perception of their internal mental state seems pretty fraught. How do you know why the business implemented this? How do you know what the other patrons felt about it? Do you regularly pick fights with psychopaths in public?

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#144

Post by epistasis »

nfw2 wrote: post #141
hilariously wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, this article is about the Trump administration going out of their way to pick political appointees who go out of their way to make us sicker in such a despicable way that even they cannot justify it. It's wild to me that we keep talking about Biden/Kamala as if they are the ones responsible for the lost in trust in institutions when we have a Republican party and Fox news that blast that the government…

All models are wrong but some are useful. Blame is rarely a useful model because solutions require internal locus of control not external

What I often hear is that it's not useful to blame conservatives, but conservatives can live 90% of their political lives by blaming others, shifting the blame even for things they actively choose to do on their own.

People reject science because of misinformation spread by conservatives?! Oh that's the scientists fault for not doing a better job of countering the conservatives!

You see it all over this thread too.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#145

Post by godshatter »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #43
nfw2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that's particularly frustrating about all this is that any conversation with the growing contingency of distrustful people has been made very difficult by what I would call poor, avoidable, and illiberal decisions made by the federal government during COVID. (TBF, decisions during a crisis are always hard.) Lab leak theory was dismissed and actively suppressed. Inflated claims were made a priori about absol…

Having lived through it myself, I found the government’s actions extremely mild when compared to something like what ICE has been up to. Zero people were directly killed by authorities because of Covid noncompliance. From my perspective, it’s hysteria borne out of the difference in requirements for urban health policy vs. rural health policy, and the fact that rural people quite often travel through urban areas (e.g.…

> Cynically, I want to blame it on the absurd lack of empathy of rural Americans and a complete lack of ability to imagine day-to-day lifestyles that do not match their own.

Doesn't that cut both ways, though? Controls needed to keep densely populated areas safe aren't always necessary in low density areas like Wyoming. Yet some of those controls affected the livelihood of many people in areas of the country that are often poorer than those in dense urban areas.

And, yes, if a rural person is traveling to an urban area, they would have to abide by the same rules. Same as an urban person traveling to a rural area should be able to relax some of the restrictions they had to deal with. But it was mostly all or nothing, helping the divide grow even larger.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#146

Post by qlte »

inigyou wrote: post #128
SecretDreams wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really reminds me of the Russia leadership portrayals in Chernobyl.

It's basically Lysenkoism

And, following the similar pattern of “accusation in a mirror”, is the exact same thing they accused scientists of doing during the previous administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror?wprov=s...

Which (conveniently) both justifies aggressively “fighting back” against the fictitious conspiracy and waters down any criticism as a “both sides” partisanship thing that can be cynically dismissed as business as usual in DC instead of a seismic shift in federal scientific policy to conform to arbitrary political mandates.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#147

Post by stefantalpalaru »

chrsw wrote: post #47
baggachipz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While unanimous support from the advisors is a positive sign for the vaccine’s fate, the FDA ultimately decides whether to grant approval. The agency has set a deadline for a decision by August 5. They'll just ban it again. Science got a temporary victory but I predict it won't matter.

It won't. Many people here in the US don't believe in science any more and they definitely think mRNA technology is some kind of conspiracy.

[dead]

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#148

Post by qlte »

derwiki wrote: post #135
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many people who say they view any sort of paternalistic behavior with suspicion. But one obvious example of paternalistic behavior would be banning vaccines that people want to receive based on vague concerns of unproven harm. An even better example might be creating a site called realfood.gov, instructing the American people that only some kinds of food are "real" and you should ideally only eat "real" foo…

What’s the problem with realfood.gov? I just read the entire landing page and it seems reasonable to me

They’re pushing back against the parent comment’s suggestion that it’s a reaction to government “paternalism” in general and much closer to just “paternalism I don’t agree with”.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#149

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

godshatter wrote: post #145
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived through it myself, I found the government’s actions extremely mild when compared to something like what ICE has been up to. Zero people were directly killed by authorities because of Covid noncompliance. From my perspective, it’s hysteria borne out of the difference in requirements for urban health policy vs. rural health policy, and the fact that rural people quite often travel through urban areas (e.g.…

> Cynically, I want to blame it on the absurd lack of empathy of rural Americans and a complete lack of ability to imagine day-to-day lifestyles that do not match their own. Doesn't that cut both ways, though? Controls needed to keep densely populated areas safe aren't always necessary in low density areas like Wyoming. Yet some of those controls affected the livelihood of many people in areas of the country that are…

> And, yes, if a rural person is traveling to an urban area, they would have to abide by the same rules. Same as an urban person traveling to a rural area should be able to relax some of the restrictions they had to deal with.

Isn’t this precisely what organically happened? Again, there were no federal agents armed with guns and pepper spray roaming the nation, enforcing Covid compliance. Rural bars, restaurants, stores pretty much all remained open the whole pandemic minus the couple of weeks where we weren’t sure if it was thousands or millions of people who would die.

People were “forced” to wear masks, which again, in practice, meant that once you got a certain number of miles away from an urban center there was no enforcement.

Plenty of Americans never got vaccinated. Their travel was restricted. Fair trade off all things considered. Urban people shouldn’t be forced to eat (i.e. live) where rural people shit (i.e. gallivant around as a disease vector).

> Yet some of those controls affected the livelihood of many people in areas of the country that are often poorer than those in dense urban areas.

This is very bad faith. The rural poor were completely unaffected by Covid measures. I traveled to Kentucky throughout Covid for hiking and pretty much never saw a mask. The rural poor also were unaffected by travel restrictions because the rural poor do not travel.

I swear the only acceptable policy for some people would have been no policy at all. Any active policy would have eroded “trust in institutions”.

Dead people don’t buy products either.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#150

Post by rurp »

vlovich123 wrote: post #136
nearlyepic wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stupidity is home-grown. Blaming "enemy states" is deflection - the quicker we understand that the quicker we can get to fixing this mess.

I don’t know. Seems like the Orban government was funneling an awful lot of money to CPAC. You know, one of Putin’s closest allies. Not sure it’s genuinely home grown.

Certainly both are happening, to one degree or another. Hostile influence campaigns are having some effect but I would give homegrown the most credit. Given the general bumbling of the Putin/Orban governments of the world I doubt they are overly competent in this one area. Most of the physical sabotage operations that have been uncovered in Europe weren't very sophisticated; even if they are still dangerous.

Americans are incredibly pissed about all sorts of things, both valid and absurd, and have a long track record of picking bad options as a fix.

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