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There is minimal downside to switching to open models

marble.onl

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Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#161

Post by nxm »

lmm wrote: post #107
cpursley wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all the issues in the US and generally wrong direction, I can’t remember them ever arresting people for mean tweets in the way that Germany and the UK have. They all seem to be running full speed towards a surveillance state.

> With all the issues in the US and generally wrong direction, I can’t remember them ever arresting people for mean tweets in the way that Germany and the UK have. Then you haven't been paying attention. The constitution prevents citizens from being convicted, but that doesn't stop arrests or being turned away at the border (even for permanent residents who've lived in the US for decades), and US citizens don't seem…

A few people being stopped to check if their residency is valid is more than fine considering the last admin flooded the country with 20mil migrants with its open border policy

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#162

Post by pbgcp2026 »

blackoil wrote: post #44
bnj wrote: post #41

I’ve been wanting to get better acquainted with local inference but I don’t have the hardware, which has made me think about something I haven’t seen discussed, which is local collaboratives. The economics makes it seem like a group of people joining together to run good hardware and an open model might make sense, but I haven’t seen anything like this mentioned. Have I been missing it? I think it would be pretty nea…

Open models hosted in Cloud???

AWS Bedrock hosts Gemma 4 31B and this is The Best Deal – hands down. Try it. Vertex also has Gemma 4 MoE version. Not "lobotomised" by quants. There are also GLM (latest) and Qwen / DS (but these two are not latest versions)

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#163

Post by fredoliveira »

Phlogi wrote: post #140
ttoinou wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dont care about which exact provider it is using behind the hood ?

No, as long as they follow the requirements, especially the data privacy agreements. What would you? Price?

Output quality immediately comes to mind, of course.

Models are converging, but they converge in bands, and frontier is frontier. I would not like to have any workflows in any area of my business where output is generated by an assortment of models from different providers. For trivial, mundane tasks that might be fine, but it certainly doesn't apply across the board.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#164

Post by calgoo »

solumunus wrote: post #104
kortilla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?

The UK can arrest you for hate speech. You can disagree with that policy on free speech terms if you want, and that’s really a maximal free speech position. It’s a very strange position to hold if you’re claiming that the U.S. is better when it comes to free speech. The U.S. administration is engaged in active smear campaigns against anyone who speaks loudly against them, threatened to revoke licenses of media compan…

The UK is not the EU, the UK is US "lite", they have always been that way, thats not something new.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#165

Post by tonyedgecombe »

solumunus wrote: post #104
kortilla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?

The UK can arrest you for hate speech. You can disagree with that policy on free speech terms if you want, and that’s really a maximal free speech position. It’s a very strange position to hold if you’re claiming that the U.S. is better when it comes to free speech. The U.S. administration is engaged in active smear campaigns against anyone who speaks loudly against them, threatened to revoke licenses of media compan…

> The UK can arrest you for hate speech.

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=13879460433775...

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#166

Post by nxm »

lmm wrote: post #120
cpursley wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A 30 second search found me https://www.fire.org/news/he-spent-37-days-jail-facebook-pos... . You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride. (And you're pretty thoroughly proving my point about US citizens not caring about anyone else)

Yay you found a single instance, and more over there are legal means of recourse, unlike the the UK when you’re jailed or fined and that’s it

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#167

Post by pbgcp2026 »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #111
pkulak wrote: post #28

Sure. But OpenAI is the same price. Why would I pay $18/month for z.ai when OpenAI is $20/month?

One reason might be request limits. OpenAI's ChatGPT Plus w/Codex ($20/month) provides a worst-case 5-hour-request-limit of 15 for GPT-5.5, 20 for GPT-5.4, 60 for GPT-5.4-Mini. Whereas Z.ai Lite ($18/month) provides a worst-case of ~80 for GLM 5.2 (off-peak; on-peak is 2am-6am New York time). So Z.ai can provide higher limits for a cheaper price. ( https://codeberg.org/mutablecc/calculate-ai-cost/src/branch/... )

Subscriptions are done. By the end of 2026 everyone will be paying for actual mils of tokens consumed, via API calls.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#168

Post by nxm »

leptons wrote: post #121
cpursley wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

One guy spent 37 days in jail for re-posting a thing trump said ("We have to get over it" in reference to a school shooting), after Charlie Kirk was killed. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg7pyjxjxrvo

So one guy, and now he’s suing which is a form of justice. No such path in the UK…. You’re fined and/or arrested and that’s all

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#169

Post by [deleted] »

mirekrusin wrote: post #141
PeterStuer wrote: post #116

While I agree with some of the gist of the article, 2 remarks: 1. Unfortunatly in my tests the open models do not (yet?) rival, at least Claude Opus, for software development/engineering and adjacent tasks. 2. Enjoy while it lasts. I'll be genuinly amazed these open models will not be declared 'illegal' under some security pretense by the end of the year. And I say 'pretense' because the primary driver will be regula…

Banning models in US just strengthens competing states, ie. China.

[deleted]

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#170

Post by t-3 »

cpursley wrote: post #112
lmm wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all the issues in the US and generally wrong direction, I can’t remember them ever arresting people for mean tweets in the way that Germany and the UK have. Then you haven't been paying attention. The constitution prevents citizens from being convicted, but that doesn't stop arrests or being turned away at the border (even for permanent residents who've lived in the US for decades), and US citizens don't seem…

[flagged]

The US has arrested many people for speech, and even made charges stick many time. A famous historical example is charging Eugene Debs (and many others) with sedition for opposing WWI and the draft. There was at least one case of being arrested for political social media posts, already linked in adjacent threads. Threats of violence or even sufficiently harsh language to cause fear-for-life can be a crime. "Revenge porn" and deepfakes have had laws passed curtailing them and prosecutions made. The US is certainly less restrictive of speech than other countries, but you're nowhere near entirely free to say or post anything you want.
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