Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

There is minimal downside to switching to open models

marble.onl

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 351 posts

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#101

Post by matheusmoreira »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #74
inigyou wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because as soon as it strikes computer hardware will be completely unavailable to buy?

Also, there's a nontrivial learning curve involved in running your own inference server, once you move past the casual-goofing-around-with-llama-server stage. If you care about not being a sharecropper on Sam's or Dario's plantation, you should consider learning the ropes. Even if you don't put these skills to immediate use in your day job. I didn't appreciate this until I started down that road myself.

> If you care about not being a sharecropper on Sam's or Dario's plantation

Couldn't have put it better myself. That's what all this comes down to. Owning the hardware, owning the inference. Not perpetually renting them out on a meter like in the dystopian future they're envisioning.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#102

Post by ttoinou »

coffinbirth wrote: post #70

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-…

You dont care about which exact provider it is using behind the hood ?

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#103

Post by Gigachad »

p_j_w wrote: post #98
kortilla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?

> values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). The US federal government forced Paramount to take Colbert off the air. Seems that people in the US don’t actually value these things. > What values specifically are you optimizing for here? Probably not being fascist.

They currently have the military circling a pool to intimidate people trying to take photos of the botched paint job.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#104

Post by solumunus »

kortilla wrote: post #93
earthnail wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From all the large governmental institutions, the EU is the one currently holding up traditional western values. That gives it street cred in this subject.

>traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?

The UK can arrest you for hate speech. You can disagree with that policy on free speech terms if you want, and that’s really a maximal free speech position. It’s a very strange position to hold if you’re claiming that the U.S. is better when it comes to free speech. The U.S. administration is engaged in active smear campaigns against anyone who speaks loudly against them, threatened to revoke licenses of media companies, they’re suing people and corporations to silence them and pressure them into conformance, they’re threatening to deport people who are simply expressing anti-Israel views, threatened to remove funding from universities, deployed the military in cities they don’t like for no other reason than intimidation of political rivals. This is just off the top of my head.

There’s just no comparison really. You must really be inhaling some nonsense X propaganda if you think government overreach is worse in Western Europe.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#105

Post by throw1234567891 »

simianwords wrote: post #86
coffinbirth wrote: post #70

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-…

GDPR compliant llm was a joke a few months back but here we are

But is no joke anymore.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#106

Post by throwaway27448 »

earthnail wrote: post #90
throwaway27448 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why use EU specifically? I get not trusting the US, of course, but surely the EU isn't far behind in its desire to spy on its own citizens. Do you not live there?

From all the large governmental institutions, the EU is the one currently holding up traditional western values. That gives it street cred in this subject.

I'm honestly not really sure what "traditional western values" have to do with where to store data. What does that even refer to—individualism? Christianity? Representation in court by lawyers? How does this intersect with the topic at hand?

Edit: c'mon people, if you're going to use such ambiguous phrases at least have the spine to clue the reader in to what you want them to refer to in this context.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#107

Post by lmm »

cpursley wrote: post #94
earthnail wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From all the large governmental institutions, the EU is the one currently holding up traditional western values. That gives it street cred in this subject.

With all the issues in the US and generally wrong direction, I can’t remember them ever arresting people for mean tweets in the way that Germany and the UK have. They all seem to be running full speed towards a surveillance state.

> With all the issues in the US and generally wrong direction, I can’t remember them ever arresting people for mean tweets in the way that Germany and the UK have.

Then you haven't been paying attention. The constitution prevents citizens from being convicted, but that doesn't stop arrests or being turned away at the border (even for permanent residents who've lived in the US for decades), and US citizens don't seem to care, so it's cold comfort for many of us.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#108

Post by throwaway27448 »

p_j_w wrote: post #98
kortilla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?

> values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). The US federal government forced Paramount to take Colbert off the air. Seems that people in the US don’t actually value these things. > What values specifically are you optimizing for here? Probably not being fascist.

> The US federal government forced Paramount to take Colbert off the air.

Not really; the Ellisons are quite close to Trump. Nobody was forced to do anything. Had the FCC actually revoked their license, and had Paramount actually been willing to fight, they could have sued. It's not easy to force anyone that rich to do anything; the state works on behalf of capital. It seems like europe is more aware of the meaningless bluster than the actual crimes being committed

There are much better things to point to to illustrate the deterioration of the rule of law, like blatantly illegal deportation of citizens without due process. Or raping children in concentration camps under the guise of cracking down on crime. We may never even know who was seized and what happened to them and there's little incentive for our very pro-corporate media to report on it.

But sure, paramount is the real victim here.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#109

Post by Latty »

cpursley wrote: post #94
earthnail wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From all the large governmental institutions, the EU is the one currently holding up traditional western values. That gives it street cred in this subject.

With all the issues in the US and generally wrong direction, I can’t remember them ever arresting people for mean tweets in the way that Germany and the UK have. They all seem to be running full speed towards a surveillance state.

They literally arrested people for quoting Charlie Kirk in tweets after his death.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#110

Post by johndough »

coffinbirth wrote: post #70

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-…

I had a look at eurouter.ai and it seems like an extremely bad offer.

- The prices are ridiculous (15 % markup for free account).

- They have a rate limit of 1000 requests per month, unless you pay 40€ per month for ... what exactly is their value proposition?

- They have a single provider (TensorX) for DeepSeek-V4-Pro, with a cache read cost that is over 100 times higher than DeepSeek ($0.44 vs $0.003625). Notably, I had to look at the TensorX website for that information, since I could not find any information about cached token cost on eurorouter.ai.

Post reply on HN