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Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

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Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#161

Post by parineum »

mannanj wrote: post #127
estearum wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy wha…

Seems people in general have started to project their lifes disappointments, stresses, and greater human needs onto a digital dimension like video games. Growing up they used to be about fun. I have endless memories as a child playing Mario N64 and it not needing to be about playing a particular way; only as a I got older and competition and disappointments being human as an adult added up did I notice this shift you…

> edit: in online games I played growing up too, this negativity/anti-fun change came probably around 2004 with bigger changes in the US political climate as well.

Tying this to politics is odd to me.

Online gaming has been toxic since day one. Anything that depersonalizes is going to be toxic and that is inherent in the online space. In the smaller communities you can actually get to know people and have some kind of reputation but as the community size grows, the consequences of bad behavior fade because nobody can remember.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#162

Post by estearum »

kridsdale1 wrote: post #77
estearum wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how your comment makes sense. You're not part of any "community" but you also never play with random strangers? I only play public matches with random strangers and this is the feeling. Obviously this wouldn't apply if I had a small community of not-strangers to play with consistently, which you do have but oddly describe as not having a community.

He could be playing with his real friends.

"Real friends" is also known as "a community."

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#163

Post by estearum »

falcor84 wrote: post #76
estearum wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how your comment makes sense. You're not part of any "community" but you also never play with random strangers? I only play public matches with random strangers and this is the feeling. Obviously this wouldn't apply if I had a small community of not-strangers to play with consistently, which you do have but oddly describe as not having a community.

Well, while every group of people is definitionally "a community", you can absolutely have your friend group not be part of "the community" of the game. Just like you can have a LAN and not be "on the net", watch implies the internet.

Uhh if you are playing games consistently with your friends, then they are a community that you're playing with.

If what GP is saying is "play with people you know personally and then you won't have to play with people you don't know personally," well, sure. Great insight.

Most people don't and can't do that. That's why online matchmaking exists and constitutes 99.999999% of online gameplay.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#164

Post by wafflemaker »

estearum wrote: post #25
aetherspawn wrote: post #14

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few years prior, and if you don’t follow the exact meta of the month (whatever that might be) in terms of build order and things, people can get really aggro and your team can vote to kick you and take your units. Also, one particularly aggravating part of the com…

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy wha…

I remember playing Malzahar support before it was meta, because that was the only character I could play well in League of Legends.

Sometimes people would even rage quit. But I could do really well as support, even if it was slightly worse than some other characters. It made for a very fun playthrough.

And I would totally get the people. Sometimes somebody in a bad mood joins your game and just messes everything up because they didn't get to play mid. And I might have looked like someone like that.

But dealing with toxic players is surprisingly easy.

I initially looked down at LoL, but later wanted to learn to play to spend time online with my younger brother that was having a hard time. So I had a friend show me something.

First time I played jungle, I died on the first monster. Before people could finish typing flaming messages, my friend typed into the chat /ignore all

Voila - silence and no flaming.

Later I stopped preemptively ignoring everyone. Just used no second chances tactic. If anybody cursed, was mean or even used the word noob, I instantly ignored them and then kept playing.

Sometimes told a teammate that had a bad steak to do that to the flaming person. Many games I've one because of being nice to my teammates, trying to keep their spirits up. Wasn't super hard - 25 year old at that time and reading some philosophy books and meditating vs regular 13 year olds.

It was still important to ignore people before they could push your buttons and anger you.

I wonder if it's the same in other games. Definitely not the case in Eve online when I played that. But over there you meet the same people again and by having no style and being a bad winner and a bad loser didn't give you any respect.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#165

Post by estearum »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #145
embedding-shape wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves I think they might destroy the streaming/online communities, but I wouldn't say it destroys the game itself. I play BAR, but never with random strangers, the game works fine, but I also don't participate in any "video game" communities or watch/play with streamers, so what you're saying sounds very f…

Doesn't match making and self-selection solve this problem? Ideally, it should allow non-competitive players of similar performance level to play against each other.

Not really, because there are players at every level who watch Youtube. So at every level of skill, those players who are up to date on the latest "meta" will win. Not enough to beat the meta players at the next level up, but enough to beat the non-meta players at their own level.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#166

Post by estearum »

paulmist wrote: post #107
estearum wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy wha…

I think that's a normal evolution of these games? In the end they are cooperative so your teammates depend on you. Although you'll find plenty of people at the top of the ladder spamming werid strategies and being successful.

Normal evolution yet somehow wasn't really a visible force on video games until streaming and is now the predominant force on pretty much every single online competitive game.

(Unless you play with cloistered private communities)

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#167

Post by estearum »

bheadmaster wrote: post #65
estearum wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy wha…

Meta-gaming is a natural progression in all human games. Chess players find "metas" like openings. It's just that video games are too simple and have very restricted meta set.

Which is also why chess is profoundly boring unless you're playing a casual game against a casual opponent.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#168

Post by antisthenes »

Chance-Device wrote: post #151
antisthenes wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don't understand that some people will interpret any comment in a competitive environment negatively? It's just a bad culture fit. > It’s not the community’s fault for being toxic. What's toxic to A can be good advice to B. With the person saying it being person C.

It’s not a bad culture fit, how did the culture become toxic to begin with? We have toxic people who perpetuate and defend being toxic. They take over and push out anyone who doesn’t act like them. This is how communities become toxic, and it’s exactly what you are doing now.

> We have toxic people who perpetuate and defend being toxic. They take over and push out anyone who doesn’t act like them. This is how communities become toxic, and it’s exactly what you are doing now.

How so? You have provided 0 evidence of the BAR community doing it or me doing it.

All we have is the original GP post that is an accusation (without facts).

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about and are trying to silence people by accusing them of being toxic (which is subjective).

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#169

Post by herodoturtle »

PtaQQ wrote: post #84
aetherspawn wrote: post #14

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few years prior, and if you don’t follow the exact meta of the month (whatever that might be) in terms of build order and things, people can get really aggro and your team can vote to kick you and take your units. Also, one particularly aggravating part of the com…

Hey, PtaQ here, BAR’s Community Manager. I’m sorry this was your experience. There are definitely some very competitive lobbies, but harassment is not acceptable. Please report any players involved, as reports are the only way we can identify patterns and take action. We have an active moderation team and do review them. For a more relaxed experience, I’d recommend trying less established meta maps. Lobbies marked “r…

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to comment here and for offering constructive support too.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#170

Post by jon-wood »

jansan wrote: post #100
tobinfekkes wrote: post #87

This is amazing to see TA on HN. I grew up playing Total Annihilation in the 90s because my cousin worked for Cavedog and got us a CD for free. It is still one of my favorite games to this day. So many great memories with that game, countless hours playing with my brothers, getting up early to play before school, asking my parents for extra chores to earn more computer time. Games aren't the same anymore. I still hav…

I had the most intense battles with my brother, even well into our 30s when we only met a few times a year. It is sad that there never really was a successor that was as good. They could have lifted the 255 units limit, made the game more balanced, added a few more maps and units (but not too many), enhace the graphics (but keep it 2.5D, I do not want 3D in this kind of games) and make connectivity easier. Cavedog re…

Supreme Commander was that follow up. Basically the same team as worked on TA, making more or less the same game but with larger maps and higher unit counts.
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