There's absolutely no way this was on autopilot. A) autopilot would not drive this fast in a nieghborhood and B) Autopilot would not drive into a house like this...
Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
111–120 of 125 posts
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
> “Autopilot” is Tesla’s old assisted driving stack that comes free in most vehicles and has had no significant updates in years. “FSD” is an entirely different software stack that only works with newer vehicles and that Tesla charges $$ for. It’s much more advanced and IMO a lot safer. I'm not sure the point you're making here - that just sounds like "Tesla couldn't care less about updating their software and it's s…
Oh, I absolutely agree. Ideally Telsa would dump the old Autopilot stack and put all cars (that have the hardware to support it) on a free version of FSD, nerfed so that it's roughly feature-equivalent to Autopilot. That way everyone would get the safety advantages of FSD, including the really important stuff like better driver attention monitoring. Unfortunately, Tesla keeps Autopilot bad because it forces more peop…
> Unfortunately, Tesla keeps Autopilot bad because it forces more people to pay for FSD, and in this case they seem to care more about profits than safety.
Not saying you're wrong, but I think "it forces people to pay for FSD" is a poor decision if true.
More likely it creates market confusion (as we see in this thread) about exactly which of the two products that Tesla advertises as things which drive your car for you is the more dangerous one and which is "the good one" (though from their taxis, I think the scare quotes are still justified even then).
I'm also not even sure if they do care about profits (or safety), given Musk's made about as much from selling Tesla shares as the company has made in lifetime profit, before getting shareholder approval for a deal to give him more shares. (Conditionally give, yes, but the nature of it all suggests share price is more important than profit or safety, and if you don't care about such things that makes it much easier for them to sell a million robots or whatever).
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#113Without knowing the "full" details of this crash, it is outrageous that Tesla calls it "Full Self-Driving (Supervised)" on their website. This is like naming a product "Healthy Dog Food (Rat poison)". If it requires supervision, it is not "full". Period. I thought previous lawsuits would've forced Tesla to call it "Advanced Driver Assist" or something.
> "Full Self-Driving (Supervised)" Water (Dry)
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> telemetry will tell the story Idk, the death-toll gap between Tesla and Waymo seems to tell a story enough.
There are very few (if any?) known deaths caused by FSD accidents. Note: it’s important to distinguish between Autopilot and FSD here. “Autopilot” is Tesla’s old assisted driving stack that comes free in most vehicles and has had no significant updates in years. “FSD” is an entirely different software stack that only works with newer vehicles and that Tesla charges $$ for. It’s much more advanced and IMO a lot safer.…
To me, having safety features that cost nothing for the manufacturer to enable sold as an option is a gross practice.
See: The software that enabled a secondary AOA sensor on the Boeing 737Max.
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also jailing basically doesn’t solve this problem?
Whenever the victim happens to be you or your loved ones, I'd love to see you maintaining that character you seem to portray.
And this is why justice is done by the state and not individual families?
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#116What will happen to the liable person? Nothing.
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#117Without knowing the "full" details of this crash, it is outrageous that Tesla calls it "Full Self-Driving (Supervised)" on their website. This is like naming a product "Healthy Dog Food (Rat poison)". If it requires supervision, it is not "full". Period. I thought previous lawsuits would've forced Tesla to call it "Advanced Driver Assist" or something.
"I thought previous lawsuits would've forced Tesla to call it "Advanced Driver Assist" or something"
Securities fraud
Problem: need evidence of intent, e.g., Musk knew software would fail
Example
LaMontagne v. Tesla
Claims
https://dn721902.ca.archive.org/0/items/gov.uscourts.cand.40...
Order
https://dn721902.ca.archive.org/0/items/gov.uscourts.cand.40...
Appeal
https://dn721902.ca.archive.org/0/items/gov.uscourts.cand.40...
False advertising
In progress, currently Tesla is appealing class certification
Example
In Re Tesla Advanced Driver Assistance Systems Litigation
Claims
https://dn721905.ca.archive.org/0/items/gov.uscourts.cand.40...
Tesla arguments
https://ia800708.us.archive.org/3/items/gov.uscourts.ca9.f97...
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
> telemetry will tell the story Idk, the death-toll gap between Tesla and Waymo seems to tell a story enough.
There are very few (if any?) known deaths caused by FSD accidents. Note: it’s important to distinguish between Autopilot and FSD here. “Autopilot” is Tesla’s old assisted driving stack that comes free in most vehicles and has had no significant updates in years. “FSD” is an entirely different software stack that only works with newer vehicles and that Tesla charges $$ for. It’s much more advanced and IMO a lot safer.…
"There are very few (if any?) known deaths caused by FSD accidents"
https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-auto...
No deaths in this one
Note the comment about Google's Waymo ceasing to use the term "full self-driving" after this accident
Why would they do that
Let the reader decide
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are on Hacker News, you don't think we know what FSD is?
The article only mentions Autopilot, but half the comments here are talking about FSD.
Makes sense
It's relevant because it arguably affects the driver's beliefs and behaviour, whether they are using FSD or just Autopilot
It's a separate upgrade but it's reasonable to assume the marketing may affect drivers using only Autopilot
If HN commenters are confusing the two then this only strengthens that argument
Re: Tesla allegedly in autopilot mode crashes into Texas house, woman killed
#120Previously: A Florida jury found that flaws in Tesla's self-driving software were partly to blame for a crash that killed a 22-year-old woman in 2019 and severely injured her boyfriend.
The jury verdict requires Tesla to pay $243 million in punitive and compensatory damages to the parents of the woman and to her boyfriend.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-judge-upholds-243-million-v...