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Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

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Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t suggest that the two were directly related.

You made the association. You literally brought them up yourself.

I simply pointed out that gaming and especially gamers have some pretty extreme negative connotations, which is true.

I could dump you links to research detailing the connections between the online gaming community and right wing extremism, but I’m pretty sure you know what I’m talking about.

“Gamer” is basically synonymous for “neo-nazi incel”, and GSK refers to itself as a “global coalition of gamers”. That’s a pretty bad look!

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made the association. You literally brought them up yourself.

I simply pointed out that gaming and especially gamers have some pretty extreme negative connotations, which is true. I could dump you links to research detailing the connections between the online gaming community and right wing extremism, but I’m pretty sure you know what I’m talking about. “Gamer” is basically synonymous for “neo-nazi incel”, and GSK refers to itself as a “global coalition of gamers”. That’s a pre…

Have you ever touched grass? You could also argue that posting in an online message board is linked with right wing extremism because there are right wing extremists posting stuff online.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply pointed out that gaming and especially gamers have some pretty extreme negative connotations, which is true. I could dump you links to research detailing the connections between the online gaming community and right wing extremism, but I’m pretty sure you know what I’m talking about. “Gamer” is basically synonymous for “neo-nazi incel”, and GSK refers to itself as a “global coalition of gamers”. That’s a pre…

Have you ever touched grass? You could also argue that posting in an online message board is linked with right wing extremism because there are right wing extremists posting stuff online.

Ask women how it goes if they pop into voice chat in a multiplayer game. Ask an AAVE speaker how people react to them while gaming.

Are you really going to tell me that the average gamer is just as bad as the average internet user?

It’s kind of hilarious to be having this conversation with “ептсука”, certainly a fitting name for someone who would defend gamers as nice people.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point of view. For me, people who advocate for preservation are usually older because they remember the times when you could just buy games and they would keep working forever. While younger people were born into the world where online games is the norm so they don't expect everything to last long.

I’m sure the preservation folks will tend to be older, but they’re still going to end up grouped with all other gamers. It’s a deeply unfortunate association. The “gamer” identity is toxic to the point where “gamer word” means “racial slur”.

I think with younger generations the perception shifted quite a bit. Gaming has become so normal that people with "radical" views and behavior are now in minority. Also the other aspects affected this - livestreaming is a good example where you need to be on your best behavior to not get banned or canceled.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure the preservation folks will tend to be older, but they’re still going to end up grouped with all other gamers. It’s a deeply unfortunate association. The “gamer” identity is toxic to the point where “gamer word” means “racial slur”.

I think with younger generations the perception shifted quite a bit. Gaming has become so normal that people with "radical" views and behavior are now in minority. Also the other aspects affected this - livestreaming is a good example where you need to be on your best behavior to not get banned or canceled.

Are you sure? Ask yourself, how are women treated when they join the voice chat?

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think with younger generations the perception shifted quite a bit. Gaming has become so normal that people with "radical" views and behavior are now in minority. Also the other aspects affected this - livestreaming is a good example where you need to be on your best behavior to not get banned or canceled.

Are you sure? Ask yourself, how are women treated when they join the voice chat?

More or less sure, but not 100% of course. Women are treated a bit better in my experience compared to say 10 or 15 years ago. Unfortunately, I haven't played many competitive games in the last couple of years, but before that rather than being insulted there were two outcomes: women were either treated normally (well as normal as it can get during heated rounds) or they were being hit on (I witnessed it a couple of times myself). The popularity of streaming also helped a bit since a lot of streamers are women.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#337
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's reasonable to at least expect that. It's their job after all, while for any single voter there is a lower standard you can realistically hold them too and less time available to verify/debunk claims. On top of that, there are also instruments that help the voters track whether politicians are engaging in corrupt lobbyism like voting records + donation / campaign contribution records, though few countries do that…

> On top of that, there are also instruments that help the voters track whether politicians are engaging in corrupt lobbyism like voting records + donation / campaign contribution records, though few countries do that to a degree that it forms a cohesive anti-corruption framework. None of those measures exist for individual voters. Corruption by definition is intentional, compare getting hoodwinked by "misinformation…

If a voter has no particular interest or alignment to one political position, but they receive money or other reward to vote for a particular option, is that not a "corrupt voter"?

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We tried that. That didn't work. Ah yes, because businesses just love to turn down free money. >Once again, nobody is asking that. So you are misunderstanding SKG. If SKG really does not want games to remain playable after EOL, they're certainly piss-poor communicators. I thought the whole point was to "stop killing games", i.e. make them last longer.

> because businesses just love to turn down free money Unfortunately, yes. Example - try getting publishing rights to No One Lives Forever franchise (GOG already tried that). It's not rare for publishers to sit on their IPs without doing anything with them. And it's not exclusive to videogames as well. > make them last longer You can look at it differently. "Last longer" can mean "getting support from the publisher f…

I also want to add that proposing people to buy an IP from a company (or pay it to keep supporting it) is very disingenuous and even borderline trolling. That's not how it works even remotely. Companies do not "negotiate" with consumers about it. So even bringing this up shows the amount of dismissiveness and bad faith that SKG "deniers" bring to the discussion. Utterly baffling...

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because businesses just love to turn down free money Unfortunately, yes. Example - try getting publishing rights to No One Lives Forever franchise (GOG already tried that). It's not rare for publishers to sit on their IPs without doing anything with them. And it's not exclusive to videogames as well. > make them last longer You can look at it differently. "Last longer" can mean "getting support from the publisher f…

I also want to add that proposing people to buy an IP from a company (or pay it to keep supporting it) is very disingenuous and even borderline trolling. That's not how it works even remotely. Companies do not "negotiate" with consumers about it. So even bringing this up shows the amount of dismissiveness and bad faith that SKG "deniers" bring to the discussion. Utterly baffling...

Is it really disingenuous to point out "haha, well obviously you guys simply aren't willing to put up enough cash to make this attractive for the rightsholders"?

I think it is simply the truth of the matter. The financial incentives don't line up, the rightsholders are not keeping you from playing games just because they're evil.

But I think you missed why I brought this up, I did so only because you specifically claimed that financial incentives are irrelevant in your earlier comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48582196

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Why are you attributing this to me Because you wrote: > If the opposition simply seeks to silence you, rather than to argue against you, how are they not malicious? in response to: > The industry should only be allowed to comment after the laws have been written and fulfill the goals of European citizens. Where it's clear from your framing of an "opposition trying to silence you" that you think the industry lobby h…

> Where it's clear from your framing of an "opposition trying to silence you" that you think the industry lobby has at least some right to be heard before the council votes on policy

This is an inherent feature of democracy. "The industry" consists entirely of people, of course you can't exclude them.

>A good faith reading of the comment you replied to has so many non-malicious interpretations.

"Let's not allow rich people to participate in the political process" has just as many possible non-malicious interpretations as "Let's not allow black people to participate in the political process". i.e. none

And even above I'm steelmanning by assuming that Frieren didn't want to also exclude indie developers.

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