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From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

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Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#91
post #79
post #27

Would someone be able to comment on this: Why is it not possible to require websites that wish to market to children to be certified as "child safe". Such sites would be audited by an independent entity that would grant them some form of encrypted key. These could be in age bands, e.g. We do this for many other things, from toys to public venues. Parents could then set their child's device to only allow access to sit…

https://monolith-project.org/blog/age-verification/ The California law might interest you (but with reverse data flow - the way you proposed doesn't work because most websites have mixed content)

Mixed content would have to be tagged as such.

Mixed content isn't a problem for broadcast TV or newspapers. They simply avoid publishing material not appropriate for children, e.g. broadcast news programs don't show gore, even when a place has been bombed and is littered with body parts.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#92
post #73

The only way to force sites to exclude children is to have them ID everyone. This is why forcing each site to restrict access is a terrible idea. It’s a backdoor to destroying everyone’s privacy. What we really need is for each of these sites to advertise its category or age targets, similar to how TV shows have a rating. Then end user devices like phones and browsers should have the option of setting parental contro…

Sounds very similar to the California bill that passed a few months ago - the one HN absolutely hated. The person who does device initial setup says whether the account is a child or adult, and transmits this to websites so they can block the content appropriately. (The site transmitting a rating doesn't work because most sites that aren't porn sites have mixed content ) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47181208

Not the same. I’m suggesting the site is required to transmit a category or rating and then end user devices have the option of filtering.

The word “option” is a key difference. I don’t think we should be forcing everyone to go through these age checks or thinking we can actual ban under-16s or other age groups from sites. There’s no way to do this without forcing everyone through an ID process, which is where a lot of these laws are heading.

Make it a parental controls thing and spread information about how parental controls work.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#93
post #52
post #10

I would expect more outrage but it seems people are burned out/don’t care?

People stopped trusting tech industry and stopped seeing it as something that helps or good or better then politicians. Majority of its complains about freedom and what not are not really about freedom are self serving bullshit and its actively trying to cause harm. Tech industry is really good at blaming the user while spending millions on making the user do what they are blaming them for. So, result is that people…

Did they really? Everyone I know trusts the tech industry.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#94

They move towards having every adult "show their id" when doing stuff online. This could have easily been solved by parental controls and banning advertising towards children (or ban advertising all together for underage accounts, everywhere... by a new phone, set that it's a phone for an underage person, add a guardian who can unlock stuff if needed, and no ads anywhere are allowed). But nope, instead we get face sc…

Parental controls are what the California age attestation law does

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#95

A ban is a good idea, but not by eroding the privacy of every adult, for all of the reasons stated elsewhere. I think most people agree that social media is toxic, not just for children, but adults too. What I don't understand is why parents don't take responsibility for reducing the contact with such harmful products. Even growing up in the 70's, most children didn't smoke or drink alcohol, not because they didn't h…

I think when something is an issue for 90% plus of children (which I think this is probably is in some form), then it's not something we can blame entirely on parenting.

I seem to have struck lucky with a child who didn't want a mobile phone, but he was one of only two or three children a year of 200 at school that didn't have one. I can see that it's hard to deny your child something that every other child has and phones are useful when your child starts becoming more independent. I certainly wouldn't do a long journey without my phone myself. We obviously managed without phones as children, but if your child is going to school on public transport, I totally understand wanting them to have a phone in case of problems.

The apps and websites often have good (or relatively harmless!) parts to them e.g YouTube has tons of brilliant educational videos. There is no easy way as a parent to give them access to the good parts without access to the more harmful parts. You don't want to be a total killjoy and never let them play a computer game (plus playing games with them is fun!). Schools require internet usage for homework. You end up in lots of awkward grey areas. Is watching a video about building logic gates in Minecraft ok? If so, then what about Minecraft videos generally? You can't pre-vet everything they want to watch and then supervise them closely to make sure they don't stray from that.

It feels different from smoking/alcohol because there are so many grey areas and there isn't quite as clear evidence as to what exactly is harmful. Ideally you try and prevent your children smoking and drinking alcohol with education and setting a good example rather your wrath. That's trickier with social media.

I think the current proposals are non-ideal but a bit of a desperation measure because nobody has come up with anything better.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give your ID and full name and address to every site you access so that people care about freedom and privacy. Yeah. Genius idea. Strip away everyone's rights so they think "gee, I wish I had freedom", then never let them have freedom again.

I never wrote something like this, I didn't discuss the implementation mechanism. The parent said the most important thing is not the children but some rights that in a few years are not gonna mean anything the way we go. I think it's the other way around. I also think your idea of rights may be skewed. It is your right to not give a name and address to a website. If a website requires it, then just skip it. If you c…

They're right that it's not an important question. It's obvious to most people now that children should be kept off social media, that's why it's not a question worth discussing, it's already settled. The arguments are about how to do that without also implementing mass surveillance.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which rights, exactly?

Someone in another post was claiming there was a "right" to anonymity on the internet. That was news to me. The "rights" of my children to not be exploited by Zuckerberg and the rest of them are far more important as far as I'm concerned. To counter the privacy nuts, no age gates and social media bans won't lead to a North Korean style government. If anything it is the antidote as children will have a chance to grow…

I think we could do well with a right to send and receive IP packets without providing ID. Services built on top of this infrastructure would be allowed to either require ID or not require it.

The only part the government needs to get involved in, is to ensure devices have a parental controls option that works. This may require including parental controls information in certain packets but provide no further restrictions once the client is known not to be using them.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#98
post #53
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the people's rights to lure and attack my children? It's not a rhetorical question, it is exactly what is currently happening (and not only with children but okay).

Then enable parental controls on your children's devices. But don't enable it on my device, because I'm an adult.

There are no working parental controls. Have you tried? Because nobody is incentivized to make them work.

The California law basically mandates devices (including Linux) to have a parental controls mode and mandates apps to obey them under penalty of law.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#99

Why not bind it to the phone itself? The phone (or a phone app) would verify you're an adult, and beyond that the website would know nothing but that 1 bit of information.

Children obviously access the internet in other ways too - it's not uncommon for them to share computers with adults or even access the internet via the family television. I definitely remember during covid, most children would be on their parents' computers. Although it would still definitely make sense to do something at the phone level regardless.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#100
post #22
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the people's rights to lure and attack my children? It's not a rhetorical question, it is exactly what is currently happening (and not only with children but okay).

Maybe get good at parenting?

This is what we call a "thought-terminating cliché"
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