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Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

mickael.canouil.fr

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Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#31

Post by applicative »

Certhas wrote: post #26
applicative wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ordinary markdowns have had /everything/ you mention for close to 20 years, except typesetting. Academic papers and books, novels, thousands of ebooks, have been written in single file markdowns for 15 years. Writing directly in typst is good for small things with intense typesetting like ... wedding invitations, advertisements. But it doesn't scale to serious composition by actual writers. Writing is not typesetting…

So LaTeX also doesn't scale to serious composition by actual writers?

If they need to do typsetting, as mathematicians in fact do. Mathematics breaks the civilized opposition of content and format, because it involves the invention of symbols on the fly. Reasoning about this is actually quite simple but the typst brigaders have no experience with the history of the topic.

It is universal that the flood of largely automated hackernews typst brigaders cannot make a single post without flatly lying about every other existing instrument. On this site I have never read a single true statement by a typst brigader about latex or markdown, but I have read literally /hundreds/ of lies. If these accounts are real and not bots, the community is fated to die, unfortunately.

I use typst countless times a day, but don't need to lie.

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#32

Post by cycomanic »

applicative wrote: post #22
josephg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right; but markdown has expanded beyond that niche. Lots of projects use markdown for other stuff - like mdbook, or for blogs. I think markdown is a great format for readme files. But for real documentation, the added features of typst are fantastic. Like, being able to write scripts, have figures and custom styling, populate data from JSON files, plugins, typography, numbered sections, footnotes and all sorts of oth…

Ordinary markdowns have had /everything/ you mention for close to 20 years, except typesetting. Academic papers and books, novels, thousands of ebooks, have been written in single file markdowns for 15 years. Writing directly in typst is good for small things with intense typesetting like ... wedding invitations, advertisements. But it doesn't scale to serious composition by actual writers. Writing is not typesetting…

I'm not sure what you mean. Markdown compared to typst or latex is extremely limited and using it for books or academic papers is very niche. I certainly would (and have for all my previous publications) prefer typst or latex over markdown. I also don't understand your point about not permitting typesetting during writing. Latex and text are the prime examples of separating writing from typesetting.

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#34

Post by stared »

Interesting! If I get it right, the API is in the spirit of Observable Plot (https://observablehq.com/plot/), less ggplot2.

In any case, I'm curious whether aes is necessary, or whether it would suffice to drop this function entirely and just use keys in the mapping (similarly for labs). Or, more broadly, whether using patterns from other implementations of the Grammar of Graphics is a conscious decision, or some sort of legacy baggage.

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#35

Post by sieve »

adamnemecek wrote: post #4

Typst is the most important open source project of the last 5 years. I predict a future where markdown and latex are largely replaced by typst. And I couldn't be more excited. It is such a stepup from markdown and latex. Try it today if you are intrigued.

I like typst. But I am not a fan of the syntax. I use it as an intermediate format on the way to PDF. A document markup language should avoid building a programming language inside it. Pick python, or lua, or whatever.

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#36

Post by flerovium114 »

red_admiral wrote: post #33

Always pleased to see Typst mentioned. TeX made a lot of choices that made sense at the time, but TeX macros and C #defines especially when nested and/or not properly bracketed to allow nesting are a mess when things go wrong.

In what setting are you mixing LaTeX and C code?

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#37

Post by nxobject »

matijsvzuijlen wrote: post #18

Why are all the parameters full words except 'labs'? I find it jarring because to me 'lab' is short for laboratory, not label.

I suspect for consistency with ggplot - the same reason why ‘aes’ is shorthand and everyone forgets that it stands for “aesthetic”.

https://ggplot2.tidyverse.org/reference/labs.html

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#38

Post by cryo32 »

adamnemecek wrote: post #4

Typst is the most important open source project of the last 5 years. I predict a future where markdown and latex are largely replaced by typst. And I couldn't be more excited. It is such a stepup from markdown and latex. Try it today if you are intrigued.

Not so sure.

I work with a lot of people in academia who work with LaTeX. I haven't met anyone who knows Typst even exists. And the source material is usually just thrown in Word or LibreOffice.

The problem is also momentum. Do you rewrite 30 years' of CTAN contributions, internal templates/styles and the toolchain off and start again or not? There's not much reason to. And you will hit the same brick walls doing so that you hit with TeX the first time round.

If it is a greenfield, possibly, but all the orgs I've seen using LaTeX have been using TeX since the dawn of time and respect the accumulated knowledge rather than the distraction of a new tool.

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#39

Post by red_admiral »

flerovium114 wrote: post #36
red_admiral wrote: post #33

Always pleased to see Typst mentioned. TeX made a lot of choices that made sense at the time, but TeX macros and C #defines especially when nested and/or not properly bracketed to allow nesting are a mess when things go wrong.

In what setting are you mixing LaTeX and C code?

No, no, TeX macros nested within other TeX macros.

Re: Gribouille 0.3.0: A Grammar of Graphics for Typst

#40

Post by matijsvzuijlen »

bestouff wrote: post #20
matijsvzuijlen wrote: post #18

Why are all the parameters full words except 'labs'? I find it jarring because to me 'lab' is short for laboratory, not label.

He's open to API suggestions, you should open an issue

Yes, I will do that!
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