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Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

whatwelo.st

51–60 of 69 posts

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#51
> Vibe-coded software is simply not good.

That is simply not true. It can be better or it can be worse - depends on who directed it.

I understand where the point comes from, but someone who has coded and architected a lot of applications for many years, does get the good side. But a user who see code as an alien language - they are ultimately going to get the bad side of it.

There was a theory floated around by an youtuber (and a tech geek), on how to vibe code better - and how to let agents run the show. I tried, more than once - it failed badly. Not failed at the output or the UI - failed at writing good and well architected code.

> What happens when things go wrong

- this is the most important question - can the human step in?

For me the answer is a unequivocal yes. I may not be able to fix it in 10 minutes, but I know I will fix it in 10 hours or 100 hours - whatever it takes. But when a user who "can't read code" comes in - and asks me to fix their problem, it is going to cost them a lot more than their total subsidized vibe coding tool cost. They're going to be like - the app cost me 100-200$ to vibe-build, but the dev is going to charge me 5-10x for a 2 line fix.

For some the decision will be like - better buy a new phone than repairing the old one, for others - they can't replace things easily.

What used to take 1.5 years to build 10 years ago, and 6-9 months to build 5 years ago, takes 1.5 months or faster to build today (if it is done with the same rigor).

> The GDPR example

How is it different from having a human dev team hired? The CEOs or founders are responsible - they can't go and say "that dev did the wrong thing, fine them" - will you work for such a person?

> the belief that AI can — and will — displace white-collar jobs is a lie

It already is displacing, unfortunately. It has been taking apart both jobs and businesses - one role at a time - within 6 months of AI coming out. Some are experiencing it now, some have experienced it earlier, some will experience it later.

For example - a good tech guy in finance domain and having good domain knowledge - gets fired. After a while, he will end up competing for jobs in the finance domain - because he needs to survive. The domino effect will be seen. And hope it does not become a race to the bottom.

And new roles are likely to come up and stabilize - but the bar will be high and you will need AI all the time. Otherwise you will be seen like ploughing the farm by hand instead of using a tractor.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#52

The analogy to MLM doesn’t work. In a pyramid scheme, early investors are guaranteed money, whereas late investors are guaranteed losses. With a vibe-coding platform, everyone has the same (extremely low) odds of building a hit app, so is at least more equitable in that sense.

I think the point the author is trying to convey, is that they are similar to MLM schemes in that they profit off of peoples hopes and dreams. Altough there are MLMs that are pure pyramid schemes, there are some where it is also not impossible to earn some money with it. Their products do not even have to be downright bad or fake. Having read Daniel Kahneman, I suppose with (economic) desperation people become especi…

> they profit off of peoples hopes and dreams

Not trying to be overly cynical, but isn't that just marketing?

A lot of marketing just getting people to picture a better future version of their life and then making them think that your product will get them there. They're not actually buying the product for the product, they're buying it to try to get that imaginary future. I don't really see how Repilit ad telling people they can built the app of their dreams is very different than a gym ad telling people that they can get ripped or something like The Container Store showing someone with a messy house magically getting organized and cleaned.

I'm not saying that any of those examples are particularly good or moral, but I don't get how what Repilit is doing is any different than just standard marketing tactics we see every time we watch a block of ads.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling to desperation is not the same as an MLM. TikTok grifters don't expect their watchers to then go out and grift on TikTok themselves while giving the original person a cut, there are no levels to this sort of grift, as would be required in a multi level marketing scheme.

They absolutely do, you’re just looking at the leafs of the tree.

Most TikTok products I know are not of a multi level format, the originators do not care if you buy their course then make your own course as they see none of that money beyond the initial sale.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one knows what AI will look like 6 months No, but we know what it’s looked like over the past 6 months. We also have two years of Altman preening about imminent, massive job losses. Per his own timelines, those haven’t manifested. Predicting indeterminate catastrophe isn’t a prediction, it’s a scam.

Agreed but the converse is also true. Predicting that everything will be sunshine and rainbows merely because the sky hasn't fallen yet doesn't pass the sniff test. > we know what it’s looked like over the past 6 months. Oddly I seem to interpret that in the opposite manner that you do. The output became noticeably more cohesive sometime around the new year although it certainly still has plenty of shortcomings.

> Predicting that everything will be sunshine and rainbows merely because the sky hasn't fallen yet doesn't pass the sniff test

I’m not predicting it will be fine. I’m saying we have enough evidence to cast the opposite prediction, made on specific timescales in the past, as BS.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#56
> Vibe-coded software is simply not good. Let’s suppose that someone deploys an app and there’s a critical security vulnerability that allows a threat actor to, say, exfiltrate all their customer information. How would they know? And if they became aware of it (presumably because said threat actor exploited said vulnerability), how would they fix it?

Is all non-vibe-coded software "good"? Are so-called real companies (with professional software development and IT staff) impervious to these threats?

> Also, would the person who developed the app know that, under legislation like GDPR, they can be financially liable for data breaches? Because they would be! And the whole point of the financial penalty system (at least, with respect to GDPR) is to be dissuasive — to act as a deterrent to other people who would be cavalier with other people’s data.

> I can very easily imagine a national data protection authority — like the UK’s ICO — giving someone a massive, massive fine in order to dissuade other people from deploying their own AI-generated, unvetted slop code.

Thousands of companies have been hit with GDPR fines, including some of the biggest companies in the world. Why the apparent assumption that vibe-coders are any more cavalier about people's data than companies that in many cases exist solely to profit from it?

I think you can make a legitimate argument that companies selling vibe coding dreams to laypeople are selling something generally unrealistic but the tone of this person's article seems like gatekeeper bait. It feels like he just doesn't like the idea that non-engineers might try to use tools (oversold or not) that allow them to do things he thinks non-engineers shouldn't do.

It's very much a "keep out", "stay in your lane" vibe.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#57

> in part because of the huckster-like triangulations of scumbags like Sam Altman and Dario Amodei I would happily read an AI-critical blogpost if it weren't clearly motivated by a strange, specific hatred of the prominent AI figureheads. At this point I automatically dismiss writing like this, the motivated reasoning is palpable. Their distaste for the character and general vibes of the AI industry trap them in blat…

> I would happily read an AI-critical blogpost if it weren't clearly motivated by a strange, specific hatred of the prominent AI figureheads.

The thing is... many prominent figures, both individuals and companies, in the AI industry just lend themselves to being hateable.

Sam Altman personally completely fucked up the RAM market with his double dealing. Every single one of us felt the consequences of that and we will feel it for years to come. And it is why I will call for his arrest, speedy trial and imprisonment every time I have the misfortune of reading his name. I wish to see this person suffer from the bottom of my heart.

Elon Musk, well, there are so, so many valid reasons to hate him. Regarding AI itself, the mechahitler incident and the "undress her in a bikini" CSAM generator are the worst issues. Regarding him as a person, the "pedo diver" incident, the shady stuff surrounding virtually all of his children's mothers, the complete clusterfuck around his daughter, DOGE, the right-arm salute his fanbase keeps denying being a nazi salute, him stoking racial riots in the UK twice, his constant overpromising in all of his ventures (some of which would normally fall under "investor defrauding" claims if there were a functioning legal and regulatory world), the trashcontainer on wheels...

Google has no (notable) individual persons to raise the pitchforks against, but as a company, they severely degraded the quality of their "ordinary" search and have gone to steal clicks and thus money from creators by distilling their work into the AI results box at the top of every search.

Microsoft keeps shoveling AI down everyone's throats no matter if we want it.

Anthropic has literally ripped books apart to scan them for Claude. Google, back when they created the dataset for Google Books, at least didn't destroy the books. Destroying books at that scale is a sacrilege.

Every single AI company is guilty of using questionably sourced materials - either outright stolen or human input based on exploitation.

And on top of that, it's not just RAM that has gotten expensive. The entire rest of the economy - both individuals and companies of all sizes - are priced out of personal and even cloud compute, as the blown-up AI giants scoop up everything they can and the scraps and aged hardware that's available gets fought over by everyone else.

> blatant denials of reality, like claiming that AI is a completely worthless technology or surely the bubble will pop any minute now.

It is undeniable that the entire AI sphere is a bubble, artificially propped up by circular investments and wash trades, and that is now poised to raid pension funds.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see no argument whatsoever in the piece as to why this is the case, just an emphatic declaration. We’ve heard Claude is good enough now that you no longer need SE and founders will just do their coding for a year already. It hasn’t happened. And guess who develops CC and other Anthropic/OpenAI products?

The false part is that the masses do not accept the lie, as most don't actually believe those companies.

People who talk about the masses are at the same time completely distanced from them but also completely tuned in to their mass psyche, or so they claim.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#59

> in part because of the huckster-like triangulations of scumbags like Sam Altman and Dario Amodei I would happily read an AI-critical blogpost if it weren't clearly motivated by a strange, specific hatred of the prominent AI figureheads. At this point I automatically dismiss writing like this, the motivated reasoning is palpable. Their distaste for the character and general vibes of the AI industry trap them in blat…

> I would happily read an AI-critical blogpost if it weren't clearly motivated by a strange, specific hatred of the prominent AI figureheads.

It would annoy me more if those AI figureheads were not such hateful people.

Re: Generative AI Is Having Its Herbalife Moment

#60

> in part because of the huckster-like triangulations of scumbags like Sam Altman and Dario Amodei I would happily read an AI-critical blogpost if it weren't clearly motivated by a strange, specific hatred of the prominent AI figureheads. At this point I automatically dismiss writing like this, the motivated reasoning is palpable. Their distaste for the character and general vibes of the AI industry trap them in blat…

> I would happily read an AI-critical blogpost if it weren't clearly motivated by a strange, specific hatred of the prominent AI figureheads. It would annoy me more if those AI figureheads were not such hateful people.

What evidence do you have that Altman, Amodei, Hassabis, etca re hateful?
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