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Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

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Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#391

Post by knorker »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #280
knorker wrote: post #16

> like all web apps, it’s slow No, that's a very uninformed take, and contradicted on two fronts: 1. Microsoft's other native apps have gotten unusably slow lately, too. 2. There's definitely plenty of fast web apps. I don't mind snark, but make it factually accurate. This is just Microsoft's poor strategic decision to try to drive as many as possible to Linux. Hell, weren't they bragging recently about managing to m…

All web apps are in fact slow compared to native apps. They are also clunky (though that's my opinion, not a fact). There are better and worse web apps, yes. And it's possible to make native apps which are even worse than a web app. But "like all web apps, it's slow" is a perfectly fair statement.

That's not even remotely true.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#392

Post by adamddev1 »

nzoschke wrote: post #283
stackskipton wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I clicked, saw this "The email app with its own AI agent" and closed. Another "Let's shove AI into something". Outlook already provides me this, it's terrible at it since context is key and context is probably buried in several places it has access to and despite that access, it still falls flat.

Fair feedback and sentiment. As I build this out there's actually less and less AI in the product and more good old-fashioned UX, writing and data entry tools, and automations. Some examples... We're simply bringing a CRM CRUD form into an email thread, populated from email sender / domain, for the end user to review and submit. You can add your own notes into a thread, and copy / paste from Similarly good pre-define…

I second this feedback. The demo video was also clicking on emails and having Claude research and answer them automatically? Is this really the inhumane kind of communication we want to be pushing and normalizing? The UI looks nice, and I would love a better e-mail client, but the egregious pushing of AI convinces me not to try it.

If the developer is suggesting answering emails with agents without reading it, how do I know this project is shoved full of unchecked vibe-coding? Don't want to be so harsh, but I wanted to second this feedback since you seem serious about hearing it. All the best with the project, aside from the immediate AI turnoff it looks great.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#393

Post by knorker »

sgt wrote: post #47
knorker wrote: post #16

> like all web apps, it’s slow No, that's a very uninformed take, and contradicted on two fronts: 1. Microsoft's other native apps have gotten unusably slow lately, too. 2. There's definitely plenty of fast web apps. I don't mind snark, but make it factually accurate. This is just Microsoft's poor strategic decision to try to drive as many as possible to Linux. Hell, weren't they bragging recently about managing to m…

Web apps tend to be a mixed bag. After a while they become slow because of dozens of async operations relying on network. That can be an issue for native apps too, but they tend to be designed in a local-first manner, which means that they'll always have a speed advantage, assuming your typical dev team.

> Web apps tend to be a mixed bag. After a while they become slow because of dozens of async operations relying on network.

That's not an inherent web-vs-native difference, though.

> That can be an issue for native apps too, but they tend to be designed in a local-first manner

That's a choice.

> which means that they'll always have a speed advantage

woah there. No.

> assuming your typical dev team

So it comes down to the developers (and project management, etc). Yup, I 100% agree with that.

So we agree that it's not a technical difference?

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#395

Post by annzabelle »

fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #378
RajT88 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2026 is the year of Linux on the Desktop! > At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up. Lifelong Windows user here. If you could get the kind of driver support you have with Windows for just whatever the fuck you have lying around, I'd probably use my Ubuntu laptop as more of a daily driver.

Unless your hardware is exotic (or actively anti-consumer), most devices are well supported. If you wouldn't mind, what issues did you have recently?

On the desktop that's true, but when I last used linux laptops (Debian, probably in 2021 or so), there were significant driver issues for the touchpad, touchscreen, buttons for brightness, and audio on every laptop I tried.

I eventually gave up and bought a Macbook and installed Homebrew and Rectangle on it. I haven't thought about drivers or firmware updates for that device since I bought it.

If I did own a desktop, I would use linux on it, and I solely use linux when I'm using VMs or cloud providers.

Recently started working at a company that uses windows and .net and it's so bad.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#396

Post by tiew9Vii »

I start Outlook every morning to check work emails. Sometimes it opens, sometimes it doesn’t, nothing shown on the screen, no loading dialogs, it’s as if you never opened it. Then five minutes later it opens.

Happens on Windows/Mac

It seems to do an update check before rendering any UI, if there’s an update it must download and apply it before showing the UI. To a user trying to open the app, it’s as if it’s broken not loading.

It’s a massive pain, trying to access email but need to wait five minutes as the app decides it’s not going to open and update instead of giving the option not to, or doing it transparently in the background so app useable and prompting to restart when ready

Trying to save files in office is just as frustrating. Some dark UX going on making it difficult to save locally instead of in one drive.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#397

Post by annzabelle »

modriano wrote: post #355
tyre wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried a Mac? Apple silicon is fantastic, build quality is the best on the market, you're still running a unix OS, and there's a huge community of developers + companies making things work.

Yeah, and I'm a big fan of the the hardware. I bought a refurbished MacBook Air in 2022 (M1 or M2, I don't recall) to try it on and see how I liked it. I mainly used it as a thin client to ssh to my homelab, but it was far and away the best laptop hardware on the market and I loved the battery life. I found that I couldn't use it with two (non-duplicating) external monitors, so I considered the test a success, gave t…

Macs are even at a good price point compared to similar hardware these days, and don't seem to have the same level of planned obsolescence of windows laptops.

A mac with homebrew and rectangle installed works well enough as a hobby development machine for me that I rarely feel the need to ssh into something else.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#398

Post by AussieWog93 »

fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #378
RajT88 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2026 is the year of Linux on the Desktop! > At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up. Lifelong Windows user here. If you could get the kind of driver support you have with Windows for just whatever the fuck you have lying around, I'd probably use my Ubuntu laptop as more of a daily driver.

Unless your hardware is exotic (or actively anti-consumer), most devices are well supported. If you wouldn't mind, what issues did you have recently?

> Unless your hardware is exotic (or actively anti-consumer)

Bruh.

2 weeks ago I was getting full kernel crashes on Ubuntu Server due to an Intel iGPU on a Dell Laptop with a 7th gen i7. Fortunately Claude Code fixed it after a couple of attempts, but still.

Audio was completely corrupt on a Bazzite HTPC I tried to set up 6 months ago, until I changed some setting on my TV related to 10-bit colour. Then, when that was sorted Kodi would only run in 30Hz despite the fact that other apps supported 60.

My previous laptop with Arch (circa 2020) sometimes wouldn't wake from sleep.

When I ran an OpenSUSE Desktop (circa 2019) I picked Noveau instead of the proprietary drivers, and the picture was all corrupt. Then when I installed the proper Nvidia drivers, I did the wrong thing and my whole screen turned black, Linus-style.

I then switched the same desktop to Ubuntu, which was better out of the box, but would stop reading my USB SD card reader after unplugging it a few times. WiFi would also randomly drop out until I rebooted the whole system every few hours, and when talking to my Brother Laser Printer it would only print in like 30dpi or somthing ridiculous. I was emailing the files to myself, rebooting back into Windows and then printing from there because it was so bad.

The 5 year gap between the current Linux attempts and the last one had less to do with Linux improvements and more to do with agentic LLMs being able to paper over all the cracks. To be fair, though, I expect regular people having access to Opus 4.5-tier or higher models will result in all kinds of minor issues that would normally be overlooked actually getting fixed on Linux. (Thinking about it a bit more, regular users will have access to subsidised tokens too, so a million open source devs running $20 Claude Pro subscriptions might between them be able to do way more with that $20 million than Microsoft could with Enterprise API access).

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#400

Post by bombcar »

m132 wrote: post #12

And to think that the "old" Outlook's splash screen is there for a reason: it used to take a while to open before SSDs became commonplace! Windows in general used to be usable on HDDs; SSDs would blow everyone's pants off making everything open instantly. These days we have 20+ Gbps SSDs without the AHCI latency tax and they're no longer enough to open an e-mail. THAT'S how low the ball has been dropped.

If I were a trillionaire I'd buy Apple and Microsoft and force all their engineers to use spinning rust on everything.

No SSDs would be allowed anywhere except in the "does going fast break it" test room.

Anyone above VP would be required to have 5400 RPM rust.

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