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Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

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Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#351

Post by raincole »

modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019.

Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.)

At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#352

Post by benhurmarcel »

nunez wrote: post #325
zchrykng wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got an example of a well-implemented natice app for email? I'm bugged by some bugs with the Fastmail app, but have generally had a better experience with it than any other client I've tried. Search in particular is far better on the Fastmail app.

iOS Mail app still undefeated 19 years later

It has its quirks. For example it can’t attach an image without inlining it. Or if the sender has several email addresses saved it can’t show which one sent you a particular email. And it can’t show you which of your email addresses received a given email.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#353

Post by jonpurdy »

nmjenkins wrote: post #329
jonpurdy wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally switched on "Enable offline support", caching "All mail" offline on my iPhone a few months ago. Tons of free space, only using 4GB for offline. But when my phone is actually offline (on a plane or elevator) it beachballs when trying to find something.

(I work for Fastmail). That sounds odd – have you contacted our support team so we can look into it? https://www.fastmail.com/support/

I didn't, but I'll do so now. I usually don't bother with support, because I forget that good companies like Fastmail actually have a competent support team.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#354

Post by RajT88 »

raincole wrote: post #351
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

2026 is the year of Linux on the Desktop!

> At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

Lifelong Windows user here. If you could get the kind of driver support you have with Windows for just whatever the fuck you have lying around, I'd probably use my Ubuntu laptop as more of a daily driver.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#355

Post by modriano »

tyre wrote: post #334
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

Have you tried a Mac? Apple silicon is fantastic, build quality is the best on the market, you're still running a unix OS, and there's a huge community of developers + companies making things work.

Yeah, and I'm a big fan of the the hardware. I bought a refurbished MacBook Air in 2022 (M1 or M2, I don't recall) to try it on and see how I liked it. I mainly used it as a thin client to ssh to my homelab, but it was far and away the best laptop hardware on the market and I loved the battery life. I found that I couldn't use it with two (non-duplicating) external monitors, so I considered the test a success, gave the MacBook Air to my wife, and bought a MacBook Pro (which I'm still using mainly as a thin client and ssh-ing to a Linux machine and working there; plug for Tailscale, it makes everything really nice and easy).

I know it's silly to have a MacBook Pro just for the screen size, its ability to drive two external monitors, and the battery life Apple Silicon achieves. And I feel a bit rude not really learning much about the dev tools the community has made for MacOS. But it is just really nice hardware (I just wish it wasn't such a chore to configure my Macbook to have the same ctrl+c, ctrl+v keyboard shortcuts when using an external keyboard, but the hardware is sufficiently better than anything else on the market that I tolerate it).

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#356

Post by 9x39 »

fluoridation wrote: post #319
maccard wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person mentioned is a special case but the reality is that most people do need _something_. What happens if one trusted person makes a mistake and submits an exe to perforce? Now absolutely everyone is hosed.

Why would everyone be hosed just because a binary got committed to version control? Either way, surely you can set up some policies or monitoring for that sort of thing. I don't know, I've been developing on Windows for decades without an antivirus and I've never had these issues. Are your people downloading and installing random software all the time? In my experience, once I'm set up with my usual tools I rarely ne…

>Are your people downloading and installing random software all the time?

Yeah, just looking at the app control logs, they evidently wanted a weird notepad app, someone else tried a bespoke browser, random browser extensions, some audio tool instead of using the licensed Adobe products, whatever. That's before we get into the people who try to install games or cursors or custom wallpaper and amusement widgets. There always seems to be someone who uses the work tools for porn and clicks on things. These things show up in 5-person and 5000-person offices alike.

Good judgment gets individuals pretty far but it's not workable with a critical mass of people. Many orgs are under attack from convincing and intentional spearphishing, and the common denominator in how most attacks start is people. Not all attacks, but lots.

On top of that, I think we'd fall behind on some of these attacks without stuff like 3rd party 24/7 SOCs - the last few incidents I read, cookies were re-used in seconds after being phished, and command and control sessions were detected almost immediately in a different attack.

I find all of this exhausting stuff as the norm when I talk to people across the industry, and yet I don't bother at all at home - I'm living both realities.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#357

Post by tracker1 »

While I don't like the new Outlook much, half the time I use it is through a browser on my Linux box anyway, when I check work email from my own hardware...

I'm also don't agree with the assertions that you cannot address performance issues in a web based application. The actual email rendering in Outlook classic is still an embedded browser engine. Now it's just doing more of the application. If anything VS Code and the underlying editor system should show that you really can create pretty responsive applications on a browser surface... no, it's not the fastest, but if you're comparing to a lot of "full" IDE applications, it's a massive improvement... Visual Studio around 2010 was absolutely horrible for building web based applicatons, with common freezes and input lags.

There's plenty of room for improvement in these applications... I think the web shift is more to support cross platform better than it is to avoid optimization. At this point, they really want to be able to support Android, iOS, Windows, Mac and maybe unofficially Linux. The browser is the best bet to make that happen. I think that wasm can bridge a lot of the performance issues where service interactions go beyond the immediate state. With the rust ecosystem as good as it is for wasm target usage, I'm frankly surprised more of the logic isn't already there instead of JS. That said, I don't know how much is effectively asm.js or electronic translations to JS, or relying on server functionality. I haven't dug that deep.

That said, there's plenty of room to optimize web based applications. Even if it comes down to single-channel RDP application shells to a server-running application remotely. I think the point is to share as much as possible and support as broad an audience as they can. I think this is still happening in a context where three are still those that are trying to keep Windows on top and ignore Linux, while others in the org want to fully embrace it.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#358

Post by sirwitti »

modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

Man, I just realized it's been 20 years for me. I vaguely remember sometime in 2006 that Windows Vista was inevitable and decided to switch to linux.

I don't care about fussing around and just need a useful machine for work and fun. Linux is far from perfect for me but the amount of crap windows or macos throw at me when I have to use them is almost comical.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#359

Post by BitwiseFool »

big85 wrote: post #123
reaperducer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Windows. It's everything Microsoft. What steams my clams is that I can press Reply in Outlook and be halfway through the first sentence of my message before the reply window even opens. (M4 Pro) Almost every time I use Outlook, I have to rewrite my first sentence because half of it was typed before Outlook was finished doing whatever it does in the background. This doesn't happen with other mail clients…

I hear the CPU fan spins up when you hit the Start menu now.

It needs to load in all those recommendations for you to ignore.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#360

Post by tracker1 »

RajT88 wrote: post #354
raincole wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

2026 is the year of Linux on the Desktop! > At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up. Lifelong Windows user here. If you could get the kind of driver support you have with Windows for just whatever the fuck you have lying around, I'd probably use my Ubuntu laptop as more of a daily driver.

I'm not really using anything too exotic... my hardware all works, and my printer has generally been without issue (HP Color Laser on ethernet) regardless of what I use to print from.

For me, I switched when the start menu started showing internet ads as part of the results... I ran insiders for years, often joking that WSL was my favorite Linux distro... I love the new MS Terminal, and pretty happy with a lot of things. That said, there's far more that annoys me... it's too in your face trying to sell you additional software/services/features that frankly I find offensive from an OS. It's like built in malware ads. They might as well try to sell me an X10 camera in those popups, I'd feel just as irritated about it.

I went from dual booting, to just Linux for my personal use a few years ago and been pretty happy. I'm not a gamer, and was already using Linux as my dev target for server software. It wasn't a big deal for me. Even the growing pains for Cosmic have been less annoying than some of the "features" of Windows.

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