U.S. science is in chaos • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#771

Post by toast0 » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:38 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #382

analog31 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a better way, that's not the Chinese way? What I mean is more centralized oversight over research priorities, metric-driven rewards, and preference for political favorites?

What made places like Bell Labs, Xerox PARC, IBM Research, etc thrive? What happened to that mechanism, and can we have it back?

Each of those companies had a profitable near monopoly, and were heavily vertically integrated.

Xerox PARC is a bit of an outlier, they didn't commercialize much of the things we remember them for. But Bell labs and IBM Research fed Bell and IBM lots of commercially viable stuff.

The reformed ATT is dominant in its industry, but one of several, and its industry is no longer all forms of real time communication. And afaik, they don't make any equipment anymore, etc.

There are not so many vertically integrated companies anymore. The market values the parts moee than the whole, so spinning out manufacturing or logistics or etc is a popular thing.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#772

Post by avs733 » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:39 AM UTC

npodbielski wrote: post #649

avs733 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why assume that this is about finding a job? I happily had a job in academia in the US. Probably what most would call “successful” after exiting a startup and getting a PhD I was US engineering faculty for 8 years. We picked up our keys to our new house in another country a few days ago and I start next month with a faculty promotion. Many of my colleagues are or are looking to follow.

Just out of curiosity, where did you move?

I’m going to keep it vague beyond saying that I don’t have to worry about going bankrupt from healthcare.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

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Post by enugu » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:39 AM UTC

WarmWash wrote: post #400

lopsotronic wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The retrogression perception is correct; but the specific timeframe is so incorrect that the back of my head blew out like a pinata. The goal is - and I am not picking on the reactionary wing alone, this impulse has broad support across our ideologies - de-industrialization . The complexity of post-Enlightenment civilization is being rejected, in favor of some hypothetical state. This puts the past timeframe as far b…

Trump is a populist doing populist things, including attacking the intellectuals. Conservatives have been basically purged from academia over the last 30 years, which frankly was a pretty dumb "victory" to celebrate, because now they voted in a dumb gorilla that is just smashing things as revenge.

Sure, but isn't the response worse than the problem? When intellectual standards are abandoned (as opposed to correcting a specific bias), discourse degrades into mindless anger, conspiracies and leaders who defraud their own supporters.

Given the money available to conservatives, why haven't they been able to setup vibrant universities, films, art etc. The point here is not to blame conservatives, but push the analysis of the cause to something deeper than just saying that the opponents have all the power.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

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Post by groundzeros2015 » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:40 AM UTC

dwa3592 wrote: post #307

My wife operates an optical trap (a sophisticated microscope, she uses it for studying gene/dna physical properties) and she's pretty good at working with that instrument. The number of people good at working that microscope are in the ballpark of 2000 (+- 1000) in the world! She has cried a lot in the last one year for the mess science research has become. We are moving out of the country at the end of August.

[flagged]

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

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Post by x-complexity » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:41 AM UTC

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #609

spankalee wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need people to be less racist and stop voting for politicians they hope will hurt the right people.

Less motivation for people to be racist if they have their needs met.

> Less motivation for people to be racist if they have their needs met.

If and only if what they'll be given is not taken away by anyone under any reason.**

Loss aversion bias innately exists within us for a reason: How can anyone live if someone else seeks to take what they have away?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

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Post by xnx » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:42 AM UTC

rurp wrote: post #517

evilos wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The institutions and trust that generations of Americans carefully built has been gleefully torched by cruel incompetents in the space of a handful years. The damage, physical and social, is incalculable. The unpunished crimes, endless. The reconstruction, if it happens at all, will take decades. It was all so unnecessary, so foolish.

The American Empire is gone and not coming back. It rose in a very different world and once these competitive advantages in science and elsewhere have been squandered they won't ever get back to the same level; there's too much competition from other countries now and too little faith that the US won't do this again. As much as I hate it, we're heading into a more violent and less prosperous world. Whatever that morp…

American exceptionalism is regressing to the mean.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

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Post by Carioca » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:44 AM UTC

1270018080 wrote: post #549

AlexCoventry wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada, Europe, China.

Are people really moving to China? A country that will never give outsiders citizenship?

For a country that has been a "brain magnet" for a good century, a "brain drain" might just be "talented people from wherever choosing to go somewhere else".

Case in point: an EE I know who is finishing his master's[1] is considering interesting proposals from solid (but not top tier, think Texas not Massachusetts) universities from the US, Germany and China. While he's afraid of the culture gap with China, it's clearly the one that has the more interesting things going on technically and the one he feels more excited about

[1]Engineering by itself is a bachelor's level degree here

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

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Post by platevoltage » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:44 AM UTC

protocolture wrote: post #693

dwa3592 wrote: post #307

My wife operates an optical trap (a sophisticated microscope, she uses it for studying gene/dna physical properties) and she's pretty good at working with that instrument. The number of people good at working that microscope are in the ballpark of 2000 (+- 1000) in the world! She has cried a lot in the last one year for the mess science research has become. We are moving out of the country at the end of August.

[flagged]

I live in a state where my vote for President basically doesn't count, so you can fuck right off with that.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

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Post by com2kid » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:47 AM UTC

KAMSPioneer wrote: post #619

homerowilson wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (American) worked in Spain (Cáceres, Extremadura) ~2015-2017 in tech. It was a wonderful experience. Extremely talented, hard-working, and friendly co-workers. Great health-care and education systems. I think since then rising housing prices partially due to migration have become an issue, but it's a really, really nice place.

Also American, and I'm interested why you praise the education system. I have a child who will be entering the Andalusian system at some point and although it seems better than my Oklahoman system, that is, uh...damning with faint praise. Some of my non-Spanish European colleagues also have commented that the education system is kind of "good not great" especially compared with other Western/Central European countrie…

America just ended a nearly 2 decade experience of failing to teach kids how to read English due to a NZ teacher scamming the English speaking world.

So doing better than that isn't too hard.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#780

Post by hgoel » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 2:48 AM UTC

dilawar wrote: post #751

hgoel wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting aside all the other things I could point out, my field is one where all the major players are roughly on par. Also, this isn't about making yet another DB SaaS, it's research. AI can only help make it possible to do more than what a lone person could do before. The problems are not the kind where AI can threaten jobs, and even for junior positions, it's well understood that sometimes things need to be done le…

My own experience during my PhD was that a few, if any, PI cared about your growth as a scientist. All they cared about was progress on their project which sometimes are the same. Most of the time they are not.

Admittedly I have had the luck of a very good PI, and then a very good lab to work at.

Some of my coworkers have shared some of those horror stories from previous positions, PIs insisting on primary authorship, making students do work for projects without getting any credit etc.

However, despite those abuses, I think the ultimate purpose of the PhD remains the same. Though perhaps it is easy for me to say because I didn't experience the abuses myself.