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The future of GPS

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31–40 of 46 posts

Re: The future of GPS

#31
post #28

I thought this was going to suggest cloud route processing, like Apple Maps/Google Maps/Nokia Here where the GPS is done on the phone, but the routing is done in the cloud. This is why your iPhone or Android is a hundred or even several thousand times faster to "recalculate" a new route when you take a wrong turn than your trusty, old Garmin. That's also why if you get lost in the middle of nowhere w/out cellular rec…

Doesn't google maps allow downloading of data to the phone for use without internet?

I'm guessing that's Android only?

Re: The future of GPS

#32

The key line in this article: "The disadvantage with this is that you wouldn’t get your location in real-time – it’s processed later." The viability of this seems tied to how long 'later' is. Most consumer uses of GPS require quick response times or you'll see a huge dropoff in usage.

If I'm running, or plotting a path in general, I don't need the GPS immediately. I think instantaneous GPS is mostly used for navigational and augmented reality purposes. So, I could see there being some consumer uses for it, if you could demonstrate that the power saving was worth the wait.

Post processing requires the GPS to store much more data than just a lat/lon pair. It may need more power not less to store the extra data.

Re: The future of GPS

#33

I don't think the future is GPS at all. I remember reading a while back about a researcher who was working on developing tiny optical gyroscopes that were ridiculously precise, the idea being that you can calibrate their position once and after that all future locations are determined simply by integrating the acceleration of the gyroscope. It would work in places that GPS can't (like caves). To me, that's really awe…

IMUs [1] have been used in planes for a while now, I am not sure whether it is the future or the ancestor of GPS.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_measurement_unit

Re: The future of GPS

#34

So I've worked in this space before (realtime GPS tracking for a Fortune 100) - reducing GPS battery drain is great...but getting the signal back to 'The Cloud' (ie cellular) to be processed is what sucks. And if you do barf out the data via cellular and are in cahoots with your cellular provider - you get tower information that helps estimate/verify location. But again, all of this eats away at whatever savings from…

What benefits do the new satellites bring?

Re: The future of GPS

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can synergize with GPS. Many OEM Nav systems in cars these days do something similar in tunnels, where GPS signals are unavailable.

But if gyroscopes became precise enough, I can't think of a reason for needing GPS anymore, can you?

To keep track of your position using inertial measurement you need two types of sensor - gyroscopes, to work out which way you're pointing, and accelerometers, to work out how fast you're going.

An IMU in a smartphone would be subject to 10 m/s/s acceleration at all times under gravity, 50 m/s/s on a rollercoaster, and 100,000 m/s/s if you drop your phone on a hard surface.

Let's say we don't mind losing your location if you drop your phone, so we pick an accelerometer with a maximum range of 50 m/s/s.

Now, how accurately can we measure acceleration? The raw image setting on a fancy digital camera is 14 bits, which gives 16384 levels. CD audio is 16 bit, so it has 65,536 levels. Assume you can come up with a design that offers a 32 bit range, for a full 4 billion levels.

That means your measurements will be precise to 0.0000000116 m/s/s - pretty accurate, right?

The thing is, after 24 hours your phone will have an inaccurate estimate of its speed (0.0000000116 m/s/s * 24 hours = 0.001 m/s) and after 24 hours with that inaccurate speed estimate you'll have an inaccurate position estimate (0.001 m/s * 24 hours = 86.4 m) and the longer you leave it going, the bigger the error can get.

TLDR: You need super-precise sensors to do dead reckoning that stays accurate for long periods.

Re: The future of GPS

#37

I don't think the future is GPS at all. I remember reading a while back about a researcher who was working on developing tiny optical gyroscopes that were ridiculously precise, the idea being that you can calibrate their position once and after that all future locations are determined simply by integrating the acceleration of the gyroscope. It would work in places that GPS can't (like caves). To me, that's really awe…

And what happens once the phone's battery dies?

Re: The future of GPS

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if gyroscopes became precise enough, I can't think of a reason for needing GPS anymore, can you?

To keep track of your position using inertial measurement you need two types of sensor - gyroscopes, to work out which way you're pointing, and accelerometers, to work out how fast you're going. An IMU in a smartphone would be subject to 10 m/s/s acceleration at all times under gravity, 50 m/s/s on a rollercoaster, and 100,000 m/s/s if you drop your phone on a hard surface. Let's say we don't mind losing your locatio…

One of the secrets of useful dead reckoning systems is damping which is basically reducing your velocity toward zero (or some expected value) by a measurement slightly greater than your error. The result is if your cellphone sit's on a table you don't accumulate errors. Coupled with the occasional calibration and you end up with some surprisingly accurate systems.

Re: The future of GPS

#39
post #28

I thought this was going to suggest cloud route processing, like Apple Maps/Google Maps/Nokia Here where the GPS is done on the phone, but the routing is done in the cloud. This is why your iPhone or Android is a hundred or even several thousand times faster to "recalculate" a new route when you take a wrong turn than your trusty, old Garmin. That's also why if you get lost in the middle of nowhere w/out cellular rec…

Doesn't google maps allow downloading of data to the phone for use without internet?

OSM does too (OSMand client for android). I like it. It was very useful when in Ecuador and I only had a voice-only cell signal.

Re: The future of GPS

#40

So I've worked in this space before (realtime GPS tracking for a Fortune 100) - reducing GPS battery drain is great...but getting the signal back to 'The Cloud' (ie cellular) to be processed is what sucks. And if you do barf out the data via cellular and are in cahoots with your cellular provider - you get tower information that helps estimate/verify location. But again, all of this eats away at whatever savings from…

How is it compared to the Russian 3rd generation GLONASS-K satellite?
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