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Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

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Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#171

Post by drbscl »

drorco wrote: post #89
acron0 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really buy this. From my personal experience, indie devs are more likely to use methods which make their server tech distributable (e.g. Minecraft). Large game publishers appear to go in the opposite direction for control and lineage reasons: "Crew 1 is dead so you need to buy Crew 2 now". Anyone who gamed before 2005 knows that games do not require magic, expensive, managed remote services. We all used to ru…

Well I'm talking from experience as a mobile indie game developer. Pretty much every year I'm getting warnings from Apple or Google, or 3rd party SDKs, that unless I make sure to update libraries, or comply with a new rule, they are going to take down the game. One of the latest rules was some sort of a digital services act (again another regulation) that made it very difficult for indie devs not to share their perso…

That's not related to SKG though, that's storefront policy.

In principle, as long as _you_ are not blocking using the binary on hardware that supports (i.e. a player already has it installed on an old phone), you're in the clear.

SKG is explicitly _not_ advocating for lifetime support, compatibility with new devices, etc

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#172

Post by [deleted] »

Volundr wrote: post #15
dopa42365 wrote: post #3

Well, it's a million signatures for something to be brought up, not for something to definitely become law. A decade or so ago I (among millions) signed to abolish daylight saving time. Still waiting for that heh.

Trump's said he wants to end it. That's something I'd back him on. I wish he'd sign that executive order and tilt that windmill in the courts instead of the stuff he is pushing. I'd be rooting for him!

[deleted]

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#173

Post by mafuy »

andwur wrote: post #159
gambiting wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in games, worked on some of the huge(40+ million players) online live-service games out there, and I have no idea what you're talking about here: " What isn’t realistic is stamping their feet and demanding that companies make it possible for people to run their own servers for live service games, just the licensing issues are going to be a nightmare to solve" Like....what licencing issues? After the game is "d…

> Like....what licencing issues? After the game is "dead" and the parent company doesn't want to support it anymore, we could easily release the source code or even just the executables for the servers. I can't speak to the parent's stance, but more generally this would be referring to IP licensing and patent encumbrance. I've worked on a number of large systems where non-trivial parts of the codebase were licensed f…

No problem at all. Just release your own source code. Leave out the licensed stuff. That's how id did it. If you have non-ridiculous development practices, knowing what's your IP and what is not is a basic requirement anyway.

The modder base will reimplement the licensed stuff, if needed.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#174

Post by drorco »

drbscl wrote: post #171
drorco wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I'm talking from experience as a mobile indie game developer. Pretty much every year I'm getting warnings from Apple or Google, or 3rd party SDKs, that unless I make sure to update libraries, or comply with a new rule, they are going to take down the game. One of the latest rules was some sort of a digital services act (again another regulation) that made it very difficult for indie devs not to share their perso…

That's not related to SKG though, that's storefront policy. In principle, as long as _you_ are not blocking using the binary on hardware that supports (i.e. a player already has it installed on an old phone), you're in the clear. SKG is explicitly _not_ advocating for lifetime support, compatibility with new devices, etc

But there are 3rd party SDKs that rely on outside servers that will stop working and the app could have unexpected behavior. It doesn't have to be complete crash, but it might be enough to degrade functionality to a point where some players might say the game is unplayable etc.

Being bootstrapped with no investors, there's no extra resources, and no financial benefit in making sure that the app can function well even with these 3rd party services, servers etc. not working.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#177

Post by account42 »

hobofan wrote: post #49
keybored wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is mob rule when I don’t like it. Democratic activity is populism when I don’t like it.

More direct democracy also makes it more attackable for misinformation campaigns (trying to offer a populist answer to complex problems).

It's always a misinformation campaign when you'd rather people be uninformed.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#178

Post by sensanaty »

l23k4 wrote: post #141
roblabla wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a much smaller set of European citizens, and yet they have a much larger access to lawmakers. So no, it's not idiotic.

[flagged]

> People building games contribute something to society, playing them contributes nothing.

The people building games wouldn't be contributing anything if the players weren't playing/buying them.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#179

Post by drorco »

Orygin wrote: post #124
drorco wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever build a commercial project or any business yourself? The nature of your comment implies to me you haven't. I highly recommend you give it a try, it might actually change your mind!

I didn't know it was impossible to build businesses without inserting to Meta/Google/others ad SDK to spy on all my users. Maybe we should stop normalizing these behavior.

Yea good luck getting any reasonable visibility on App Store or Google Play without paying good amount of $$$ to meta, Google etc.

Trust me I would have loved to throwaway this dependency on these platforms, I don't enjoy paying for ads. The market is not pretty, but there's a reason for why it's the way it is. For some reasons, players prefer downloading games for free and then paying potentially hundreds to thousands of dollars on IAPs, rather than everyone paying $5 for a game. I would have preferred it to be the latter personally, but the market doesn't seem to want to act this way.

Re: Stop Killing Games fails to secure EU law despite 1.3M signatures

#180

Post by kgwxd »

consp wrote: post #47
Hamuko wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The daylight saving time shit is such a fucking fumble from the EU. We have an instance of direct democracy, we have EU politicians parading around saying “we’re gonna end it” and then absolutely nothing happens. Council points fingers at Commission, Commission points fingers at Council. “It’s their job.” How am I as an EU citizen supposed to be proud of being part of this dysfunctional mess?

It's easy talking points during elections but requires lengthy legal procedures and thus gets chopped immediately. Politicians gonna be politicians. Better to be talking about the time of day than some other dog whisle.

It's also been "abolished" many times around the world, then quickly reinstated when kids start dying.
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