A Warning for Airbnb Hosts • Hacker News Board

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#51

Post by tlrobinson » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:43 PM UTC

goodcanadian wrote: post #29

The rules serve a lot of purposes: 1. To protect hotel owners and operators. 2. To protect consumers. They are guaranteed that the hotel has proper insurance, for example. 3. To protect neighbours. You can't open up a hotel in the house next door for much the same reasons that you can't open a pub or an aluminum smelter. 4. And yes, there is some rent seeking behaviour. I'll just mention transient accommodation taxes…

#1 is "a purpose" but not a good one. If hotels can't compete with Airbnb renters then that's their problem (assuming the regulatory playing field is level, which it may not be)

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#52

Post by fennecfoxen » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:45 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #17

woah wrote: post #11

I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate us on the ostensible purpose of these types of regulations. I'm assuming it's to maintain some sort of control and regulation over those who would establish unlicensed hotels on a commercial scale? For the welfare of the guests I suppose? I imagine in a world before the internet, this kind of thing was actually quite necessary. It would have been much harder to know any sort of…

> I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate us on the ostensible purpose of these types of regulations. Adam Smith is useful here. All regulation is created on behalf of business interests and is justified through the public interest. Business Interest: If everybody rented extra unused "space" and the market was fluid, this would substantially impact the profitability of the hospitality industry. Public Interest: Who wa…

But an economist here would point out that the incentives for the hotel industry to lobby for these laws are large and concentrated, while the incentives for the rest of the world to lobby against it are small and spread out. Because of the nontrivial cost of collaboration, the large and concentrated incentives win every time, the economy at large suffers a deadweight loss, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

(If you meet a Republican or Libertarian who praises deregulation of something, this is a primary reason why.)

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#53

Post by fennecfoxen » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:46 PM UTC

aba_sababa wrote: post #2

Was this paid for by hotel interests? I'm really trying to understand the depth of PR in the news.

Yeah, I mean, ignorance of the law and injustice of the law is no excuse in court, but it's a perfectly good moral excuse.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#54

Post by creativityland » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:47 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #51

goodcanadian wrote: post #29

The rules serve a lot of purposes: 1. To protect hotel owners and operators. 2. To protect consumers. They are guaranteed that the hotel has proper insurance, for example. 3. To protect neighbours. You can't open up a hotel in the house next door for much the same reasons that you can't open a pub or an aluminum smelter. 4. And yes, there is some rent seeking behaviour. I'll just mention transient accommodation taxes…

#1 is "a purpose" but not a good one. If hotels can't compete with Airbnb renters then that's their problem (assuming the regulatory playing field is level, which it may not be)

#3 is definitely a problem for many as well.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#55

Post by jlgreco » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:47 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #39

jlgreco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Of course the regulations are worded and advertised as being about "consumer protection", what could the alternative possibly be? There is no way in hell a hotel lobby would write a law that plainly claimed to be for the protection of their interests. When laws protecting Taxi monopolies claim to be for consumer protection, nobody here buys it. Those laws are for the protection of Taxi companies and unions.…

Please don't make blanket claims about what everyone here believes. I believe laws protecting Taxis are for consumer protection, and so are the hotel laws. While I do not claim these laws are perfect, I believe they continue to serve an important real purpose.

Certainly Taxis laws can and do protect consumers, but do you really think they are for that? In the authorial intent meaning of "for"?

That is a legitimate viewpoint, but I find it surprising to hear it here. It was not my intent to marginalize.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#56

Post by tatsuke95 » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:48 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #32

baddox wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lodging laws aren't there just to protect hotels. They exist to protect consumers and residents as well by setting standards for safety, etc. and helping pay for the services provided to guests by the municipality. That sounds very naive, and is extremely difficult to believe, unless hotels played no role in advocating the regulations. Besides, if that were the purpose, then why not ask the Airbnb renter and occupa…

Exactly. Of course the regulations are worded and advertised as being about "consumer protection", what could the alternative possibly be? There is no way in hell a hotel lobby would write a law that plainly claimed to be for the protection of their interests. When laws protecting Taxi monopolies claim to be for consumer protection, nobody here buys it. Those laws are for the protection of Taxi companies and unions.…

>"When laws protecting Taxi monopolies claim to be for consumer protection, nobody here buys it."

If I rent a room from you, and stick my hand in your meat grinder, who gets sued? Are you personally insured against such events? Is your landlord insured against temporary tenants?

These aren't unsolvable problems, but are why the laws exist as they do. The hotel pays money for insurance, which protects the consumer. Most AirBnB hosts don't, and that gives them a competitive advantage achieved by someone along the line breaking a law.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#57

Post by creativityland » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:48 PM UTC

kbutler wrote: post #33

This is especially ironic in light of the post-Sandy NYC-AirBnB "partnership": "Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Airbnb today announced the launch of a new platform to help connect victims of Hurricane Sandy with free housing options. Airbnb is now providing a platform to connect those who are eager to offer free housing to those who have been displaced by the storm." http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/menuitem.c093…

Didn't hear about this, interesting the article didn't mention it.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#58

Post by tomkarlo » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #11

I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate us on the ostensible purpose of these types of regulations. I'm assuming it's to maintain some sort of control and regulation over those who would establish unlicensed hotels on a commercial scale? For the welfare of the guests I suppose? I imagine in a world before the internet, this kind of thing was actually quite necessary. It would have been much harder to know any sort of…

In terms of fire and safety codes for hotels, there's a saying that they're "written in blood" - they often arise in response to a major tragedy or disaster. Generally, the industry fights them tooth and nail, despite what everyone here is saying about protectionism, etc.

For example, Nevada enacted statewide regulations on sprinklers and other fire safety in large hotels after the 1980 MGM Grand fire, which killed 87 and injured 700: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1980/nov/23/mgm-fire-may-mea...

(Vegas in particular seems to have a major hotel fire about every 10 years.)

There's also the aspect of protecting travelers - you often book at a hotel sight unseen, and when you get there you don't really have any ability to assess the safety of a lodging. It's one of those places where the free market is just not going to work that well, since you can't expect everyone to be a fire inspector.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#59

Post by bcbrown » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

ollysb wrote: post #37

zmitri wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article it mentions neighbors not having to deal with ever changing tenants.

This does sound a bit tenuous, what difference does it make if your neighbours change? You don't like people carrying luggage in the lift?

If your permanent neighbor has a loud party, you can talk to them about it the next day, and there's a decent chance you can come to an accommodation, since they have to live next to you too.

If a transient neighbor is too loud, you have no "social" recourse, because they have no incentive to accommodate you.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#60

Post by caw » Fri, Nov 30, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

I just got my electric bill from the city of Austin. On the newsletter, they mentioned that short term vacation leases ("vacation rentals by owner") require a license from the city. There's also a license for longer term rentals, but basically in Austin if you're going to rent your place (it sounds like Airbnb included), you need to get this license.