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A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

nytimes.com

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Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#11

Post by woah »

I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate us on the ostensible purpose of these types of regulations. I'm assuming it's to maintain some sort of control and regulation over those who would establish unlicensed hotels on a commercial scale? For the welfare of the guests I suppose?

I imagine in a world before the internet, this kind of thing was actually quite necessary. It would have been much harder to know any sort of details before booking a room in the night in a particular city (I don't know, I was born in 86). I'm guessing hotel regulations were written to maintain a baseline of quality, and regulations like the one this guy was fined under were written to keep people from getting around them.

Similar to the regulations on driving people around for money that Getaround and others are being fined for, to keep you from hailing a cab driven by a drunken, unlicensed cabbie.

At this point, though, it mainly seems that entrenched players like hotels and taxi companies are seeking rent.

I love the quote from the SF landlord at the end, celebrating the fact that infractions like these can be used to evict tenants and raise rents. We love you too, Ms. New.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#12

Post by jrockway »

Today, I crossed the street in the middle of the block because it was more convenient than walking to a corner, waiting for the light, and then backtracking along the other side of the street. This is illegal, but I did it anyway because the reward was higher than the near-zero risk that I would get in trouble for doing it.

People that run illegal hotels are doing the same thing: for every million guests, one guy gets a $45,000 fine. That works out to 4 cents per guest, which is a risk most people will take without thinking.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#13

Post by zmitri »

woah wrote: post #11

I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate us on the ostensible purpose of these types of regulations. I'm assuming it's to maintain some sort of control and regulation over those who would establish unlicensed hotels on a commercial scale? For the welfare of the guests I suppose? I imagine in a world before the internet, this kind of thing was actually quite necessary. It would have been much harder to know any sort of…

In the article it mentions neighbors not having to deal with ever changing tenants.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#14

Post by bilbo0s »

tomkarlo wrote: post #5
rm999 wrote: post #3

Five figure fines are completely unreasonable, the fault lies with NYC and the hotels who lobbied for these laws. Short-term housing is really bad for a city whose economy benefits so much from tourism; tiny hotel rooms start at 250/night. Airbnb is a really optimal solution. My neighbor is an airbnb apartment. At first it bothered me that new people were staying there every week, but I realized the benefits. The peo…

Lodging laws aren't there just to protect hotels. They exist to protect consumers and residents as well by setting standards for safety, etc. and helping pay for the services provided to guests by the municipality. If you take AirBNB to its logical conclusion, you end up with landlords renting apartments on AirBNB instead of to actual residents, because they can make more that way -- because they're ducking the rules…

"...If you take AirBNB to its logical conclusion, you end up with landlords renting apartments on AirBNB instead of to actual residents, because they can make more that way..."

This is exactly what happens in Paris. Housing market there is skewed due to exactly this behavior. People buy apartments and sit on them to rent them out short term. Over time it created a situation where people who I would classify as "working poor", were without housing. It struck me as strange when I was in college to see SDF who have to go to work.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#16

Post by uptown »

twoodfin wrote: post #10
trauco wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer from the article: "Perhaps it isn’t reasonable to expect the company, which believes it’s worth at least $2 billion according to a TechCrunch report on its latest fund-raising efforts, to track down every zoning law in tiny vacation hamlets. But it can certainly make the rules clear in urban areas where it knows that people like Mr. Warren could easily end up in hot water."

I wonder if "making the rules clear" in some areas but not others opens them up to liability.

The guy likely signed a lease forbidding what he did. Every New York lease I've ever signed always clearly laid out that prohibition. The liability ends there.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#17

Post by maratd »

woah wrote: post #11

I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate us on the ostensible purpose of these types of regulations. I'm assuming it's to maintain some sort of control and regulation over those who would establish unlicensed hotels on a commercial scale? For the welfare of the guests I suppose? I imagine in a world before the internet, this kind of thing was actually quite necessary. It would have been much harder to know any sort of…

> I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate us on the ostensible purpose of these types of regulations.

Adam Smith is useful here. All regulation is created on behalf of business interests and is justified through the public interest.

Business Interest:

If everybody rented extra unused "space" and the market was fluid, this would substantially impact the profitability of the hospitality industry.

Public Interest:

Who wants to live next to a hotel?

###

If you want the laws to go, you'll need to build a larger business constituency for lobbying and then convince the public that their private property rights are being violated. Two step process.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#18

Post by baddox »

tomkarlo wrote: post #5
rm999 wrote: post #3

Five figure fines are completely unreasonable, the fault lies with NYC and the hotels who lobbied for these laws. Short-term housing is really bad for a city whose economy benefits so much from tourism; tiny hotel rooms start at 250/night. Airbnb is a really optimal solution. My neighbor is an airbnb apartment. At first it bothered me that new people were staying there every week, but I realized the benefits. The peo…

Lodging laws aren't there just to protect hotels. They exist to protect consumers and residents as well by setting standards for safety, etc. and helping pay for the services provided to guests by the municipality. If you take AirBNB to its logical conclusion, you end up with landlords renting apartments on AirBNB instead of to actual residents, because they can make more that way -- because they're ducking the rules…

> Lodging laws aren't there just to protect hotels. They exist to protect consumers and residents as well by setting standards for safety, etc. and helping pay for the services provided to guests by the municipality.

That sounds very naive, and is extremely difficult to believe, unless hotels played no role in advocating the regulations. Besides, if that were the purpose, then why not ask the Airbnb renter and occupants if everything was up to their standards, and if both parties were happy (which is presumably the case, since most Airbnb transactions are presumably voluntary), drop the charges?

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#19

Post by duked »

jrockway wrote: post #12

Today, I crossed the street in the middle of the block because it was more convenient than walking to a corner, waiting for the light, and then backtracking along the other side of the street. This is illegal, but I did it anyway because the reward was higher than the near-zero risk that I would get in trouble for doing it. People that run illegal hotels are doing the same thing: for every million guests, one guy get…

Your reasoning would be "ok" if Airbnb would absorb the cost of the fine. The problem here is that all the illegal part is done by the airbnb customer who offers his short term rental on the site and he is the one who has to pay the fine if any.

Re: A Warning for Airbnb Hosts

#20

Post by tjic »

tomkarlo wrote: post #5
rm999 wrote: post #3

Five figure fines are completely unreasonable, the fault lies with NYC and the hotels who lobbied for these laws. Short-term housing is really bad for a city whose economy benefits so much from tourism; tiny hotel rooms start at 250/night. Airbnb is a really optimal solution. My neighbor is an airbnb apartment. At first it bothered me that new people were staying there every week, but I realized the benefits. The peo…

Lodging laws aren't there just to protect hotels. They exist to protect consumers and residents as well by setting standards for safety, etc. and helping pay for the services provided to guests by the municipality. If you take AirBNB to its logical conclusion, you end up with landlords renting apartments on AirBNB instead of to actual residents, because they can make more that way -- because they're ducking the rules…

> Lodging laws aren't there just to protect hotels. They exist to protect consumers

Asserted without evidence.

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